36 Comments:
Any work on the outcome of the drunk good samaritan's day in court? That's a tricky one. I can understand why the officers had to ticket him, but I really don't want college kids conditioned to put off calling for help because they don't want to risk getting an underage drinking fine.
»» Submitted by edkohler at 11:28 PM on January 30
A few recent alcohol-caused deaths made Colorado change the law, which now
"Provides immunity for up to three persons to a minor in possession charge if: An underage person calls 911 and reports that another underage person is in need of medical assistance due to alcohol consumption and he or she is the first to make the call; the person who called 911 provided his or her name and the name of the others acting in concert to the 911 operator; and the three persons remained on scene with the underage person that needed medical assistance and cooperated with medical assistance and law enforcement personnel on the scene."
»» Submitted by un-underage at 12:13 AM on January 30
His fine was reduced by half to $71. It was pretty interesting in court: the judge was quite philosophical about the balancing act between this guy's "heroic" actions... and his illegal actions. Should one wipe out the other?
You can watch my story here. The police chief's argument was compelling to me: say she let him off, and he got in his car, drove home, and got in a crash, killing someone. Then we'd go to the police and say, "Why didn't you arrest that drunk man?"
Here's a wacky question....anyone on this board ever bothered by low-frequency noise in their homes, seemingly coming from an outside source, but when you go outside, you can't hear it? It sounds like a low rumble from a distant diesel truck, but never seems to go away. It's been bugging the hell out of me lately. I hear it more in the upstairs of my house than downstairs, but I hear it everywhere in the house, really. There is something called the "Taos Hum" that people in New Mexico heard a lot in the early 90s...maybe we have a Twin Cities Hum. Anyone? Bueller? Excuse me while I go fashion my tin-foil hat. But seriously, it is bugging me.
»» Submitted by Mostly anonymous at 11:06 AM on January 31
i hear that hum too; always associated it with the water treatment plant that's about 1000 ft away. but it's never audible outside my home, and it's constant. dude. we should measure the Hz, figure out if it's between 30 and 80. what is your location mostly?
»» Submitted by »»» jeanfid at 11:39 AM on January 31
Wow, nice to hear somebody else hears it. Could be a water treatment plant in my case too....I live near a couple.
I'm in St. Louis Park, around 27th and Hampshire....there's a water treatment plant on Idaho and 29th and a water tower at Louisiana and Cedar Lake Road.
Also wonder if it's industrial? Electrical?
»» Submitted by mostly anonymouse at 12:11 PM on January 31
One sec, I've got Mulder and Scully on the line....
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 12:16 PM on January 31
I know, it all sounds pretty X-files black helicopters-ish....but the annoyance and frustration is very real. If you're sensitive to low-frequency sound, everybody thinks you belong in a loony bin because you hear this stuff and most other people either barely hear it and just tune it out or don't hear it at all.
By the way, jeanfid, what is the significance of 30-80 Hz?
»» Submitted by mostly anonymous at 12:22 PM on January 31
the range they've determined to be legitimate or confirmed constant taos hum. if that makes any sense.
»» Submitted by »»» jeanfid at 12:31 PM on January 31
I know, it all sounds pretty X-files black helicopters-ish....but the annoyance and frustration is very real. If you're sensitive to low-frequency sound, everybody thinks you belong in a loony bin because you hear this stuff and most other people either barely hear it and just tune it out or don't hear it at all.
By the way, jeanfid, what is the significance of 30-80 Hz?
»» Submitted by mostly anonymous at 12:22 PM on January 31
whoops, sorry I posted that one twice there....anyway, jeanfid, do you think it's Taos Hum? What do you think Taos Hum is, for that matter? I don't tend to buy the weirder theories, but then again, the not-weird theories don't really explain it either.
»» Submitted by mostly anonymous at 12:33 PM on January 31
Since there's nothing up about Frey today, it must be a Vampyre Day.
»» Submitted by »»» rew at 12:37 PM on January 31
Isn't there one of those ULF antennas used for communicating with our submarines buried somewhere in Minnesota?
»» Submitted by slim at 12:47 PM on January 31
I bet the Vampyre designed himself some special cloaks just for stalking.
»» Submitted by »»» annet at 1:08 PM on January 31
Re: 20 year old drunk who called 911.
Nice going, kid.
But you ain't no hero.
In fact, once you told the cops you were 20 and blew the .21 or whatever, you were toast.
As if they would just let you go. What if you had killed someone driving home? Who's ass would be on the line then? The CITY's!
Anyone who feels otherwise is an imbecile.
»» Submitted by bud at 2:29 PM on January 31
No Bud, an imbecile would be a kid, who, right after calling the cops, would say, "Now that the cops are here, I think I'll drive home drunk." Nick seems to be a lot smarter than that... or you, for that matter.
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 3:06 PM on January 31
Oh yeah, Nick also seems to be alot smarter than Chief Rikala, too, if jderusha quoted her accurately above.
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 3:10 PM on January 31
I didn't know where to put this comment, but I just wanted to note that the new banner pictures are awsome. I love the lightrail panoramic, and the picture of the frozen minihaha falls.
»» Submitted by »»» patrick at 3:15 PM on January 31
okay, bud, i'll bite: i'm an imbecile. you're right, the kid isn't a hero. but here in the good ol' US of A, we don't arrest people for things they might-maybe-could do. And he wasn't arrested for what he did do -- which was underage drinking -- he was ticketed, so he could have easily still got in a car and drove after the fuzz left. And it would have been his problem, not the city's.
Here was the post that announced them, and here are all of them on one page. (Most of the thanks goes to Margaret.)
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 3:26 PM on January 31
Actually, the Chief told me that her officers had someone come and pick up Nick, someone sober. And I think if you click on my link above and watch the story, you'll come to your own conclusions about the intelligence of the argument. Frankly, I think both people have a good point. That's what made it an interesting story.
Here's a couple quotes for you:
Nick: "It's disappointing. You wouldn't think that to help somebody you need to be a certain age. I never heard of that in any law before."
Joy Rikala: "This young man did the right thing by calling we thank him for doing it. I'm sure the young woman's family thanks him for doing it too. If you're going to take the risk to do something illegally, you also have to assume the consequences that go with it."
Jderusha: "Frankly, I think both people have a good point. That's what made it an interesting story."
So, let me get this straight, you'd have balanced a holocaust story by having someone say "Hitler made the trains run on time."
Or, to get a little more contemporary, you'd have run the easily disprovable lies of the Swift Boaters?
All you are doing is letting Rikala spin you. She easily could have called someone to get Nick and NOT given him a citation. The real result of her idiocy is that now Nick has a police record for doing the right thing.
No wonder people think journalists are morons. They don't seem to know the difference between telling two sides and telling the truth.
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 4:06 PM on January 31
when I was 20 I did the same thing. A friend of mine got so drunk (unbeknownst to the others partying) that she started going into convulsions. You should have heard the debates that everyone had about calling the cops. She had an underage ticket already and her parents threatened to stop paying for her school if she got another. So her boyfriend was arguing that we should let her sleep it off. Other people in the party were just as afraid of getting there own. After 20 minutes of this, (way too long...) I finally convinced them to let me call the ambulance. Although we all decided that we would accpet a ticket because we were concerned enough about her the cops came and Noone got a ticket and the police officer just made sure we wouldnt leave, and he said that we saved her life, so never hesitate to call again. Her blood alchohol was .4, she was well on her way to dieing. I dont fault her boyfriend at all for his argument because he was ignorantly acting on her behalf because her behalf, I fault stories like this, Why would anyone want 18 to 20 year olds deciding if its better to not get a ticket or see if their friend is okay? This is retarded, and "bud," I hope you dont have kids. This is why people die from alcohol poisoning, because the people binge drinking are often kids. It seriously turns my stomach to hear these stories. Good job Cop! I'm sure the kid learned is lesson, he'll never drink again... Oh wait.
»» Submitted by Johnny at 4:52 PM on January 31
Imbecile, your name is certainly appropriate. To call me (and all journalists) morons is so foolish I don't even know how to respond.
I urge you to point out the "truth" to this story. Did you even watch the story? There are clearly two sides.. both with intelligent arguments. The Chief wasn't at the scene-- she's supporting her officers. A good call. And this kid was hammered. He blew a .126. We have no idea if he was acting like a douche bag to police while they were there. And maybe the cop was on a power trip-- I don't know.
I'm sure he'll be OK with a misdemeanor underage drinking citation on his permenant record. All I'm saying is the story brings up an interesting philosophical argument. Do the good deeds cancel out the bad?
And if I were the University police, I would have an amnesty policy. I don't know that Minnetonka has the same concerns that the U would have..
Go git 'em, Jason!
»» Submitted by just plain Bob at 10:33 AM on February 1
So, every story has two sides? Why do you think it's ok for the U police to give amnesty but not Minnetonka police? If you think police should have given Nick a pass, why give equal weight to the chief's spin? Learn the difference between right and wrong. Those are the two sides of a story, not what the sources said.
I notice you didn't answer the Swift Boat or Hitler questions. Are there two sides to those stories? Are there any stories that don't have two sides?
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 10:48 AM on February 1
Anyone who uses Hitler as a comparison point is an imbecile.
»» Submitted by Mark at 10:58 AM on February 1
Of course every story has multiple sides: but that doesn't mean that each side carries equal weight. It seems extreme to compare this action to Hitler. And you didn't answer my question: did you actually watch the story? I don't know that there is a right or a wrong. I can see why police did what they did. I also can see why Nick feels he should have been given a break. (He was given a break- the fine was cut in half, all fees were waived)
Look, the U has a massive interest in encouraging kids to call 9-1-1 on campus when someone is drinking. I could see them weighing both sides-- and deciding-- we don't want people to hesitate to call. I wonder if Minnetonka has that large of an interest.
Where do you draw the line? If you stab someone, but then call 9-1-1 because you're worried they'll die, should you be let off the hook for the stabbing?
Imbecile - try this: he got a ticket for UNDER AGE DRINKING.
Inferring that the cops should have just blythly overlooked that is, well, imbecilic!
If they did and he plastered your granny on his way home, Rikkala is left holding a rather ugly bag.
»» Submitted by bud at 1:15 PM on February 1
bud, you are again implying that he couldn't have gotten into a car. he was ticketed not arrested. jderusha points out that the cops had someone come pick him up -- but that wouldn't prevent him from getting behind the wheel, oh say, two blocks down the road if he traded seats with the driver. the cops could have easily had someone pick him up without ticketing him. you argument doesn't hold any beer.
this isn't much of good deed vs. bad deed either. he was underage and drinking. this isn't morally wrong. maybe if he was of age and supplying booze to a minor, or yes, driving -- or stabbed someone -- then the cops should have taken some enforcement action, but he didn't, not even close. The cops have the discretion, and they made just as bad of a judgment as the kid. And, yes the chief does have to back them up. So now they will continue to respond to underage party calls, but now they have the added bonus of responding to the potential increase in unresponsive individual/overdose medical calls.
Incidentally, Chief Rikala used to be the chief at the U.
If, as jderusha says, EVERY story has multiple sides, why is Hitler any different, Mark? One uses Hitler to make the point that NOT every story has two sides. Irony. Look it up.
And, J, I did watch the story. Did you ask the chief if she really thought the guy was going to drive off while the police were there? If he were going to drive drunk, he would have done it before the police got there, don't you think? By not asking her that, and letting her make that bullshit excuse for giving him a ticket, you accord her argument credibilty it doesn't deserve.
While we're on the topic of unasked questions, why didn't the girl get a ticket, too? How about asking if the cop warned Nick that answering the question of whether he'd been drinking would incriminate him?
Finally, examine your logic on your stabbing question. I don't think Nick forced the alcohol down the girl's throat, which would be the analogous situation.
The answer to the stabbing question, though, would be the difference between aggravated assault (or perhaps manslaughter) and second degree murder.
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 12:55 PM on February 1
Bud, I was going to correct your confusion between infer and imply, but I see that the sagacious spaceman has done my work for me, abeit with subtlety. I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss it.
That said, I don't quite follow the syllogism "If he doesn't get a ticket, he'll kill my grandmother." Furthermore, I don't like you calling her an ugly bag.
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 2:14 PM on February 1
All I said was it's an interesting story. I think this discussion validates that. I'm not sure I said one side was right and the other was wrong. Beats me. I said both sides have good arguments, and I was attacked as a moron. Imbecile- when you're not name-calling, you make very compelling arguments in favor of Nick. I'm a little confused why you can't even consider the possibility that something happened in that room to provoke the cops to write a ticket. We don't know what happened there. Or maybe the cop was just an idiot.
I wonder why the prosecutor didn't drop it-- that would have seemed to be the wise choice here. Probably because the story showed up in the paper the morning before court. Nick did plead guilty. I think he could have fought it-- if he wanted to pay for an attorney- and possibly won. But he pled guilty.
Hey, it was bud started the name calling. I just adopted his suggested moniker. ("Anyone who feels otherwise is an imbecile.")
The point I was really trying to make is that your story would have been as interesting as this thread if you'd put Chief Runamok on the spot, Mike Wallace style, by asking her if giving Nick a ticket was really a good idea, given that he might have saved a life and that the liklihood of his driving drunk was nonexistent, instead of just letting her put her spin out there unchallenged.
Think of it this way: it wouldn't have even been a story if they hadn't given Nick the ticket...unless, of course, the girl died. What made it a story was that giving him a ticket was contrary to the actual desired result that kids do the right thing when they see someone in trouble.
Journalists need to work a little harder to justify the title. Merely writing or showing what other people say doesn't make you a journalist. It makes you a stenographer.
»» Submitted by Imbecile at 5:16 PM on February 1
I'm a little late, but I know lots of underage drunks in Minnetonka. Where do you think all the money from those huge allowances goes?
»» Submitted by »»» jclareb at 1:02 PM on February 3
Oh and Imbecile-- you remind me of somebody, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
»» Submitted by »»» jclareb at 1:04 PM on February 3
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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Stating the obvious: The Minnetonka police officer who gave U of M student Nick Stremer a ticket for underage drinking, it could be argued, was just doing his job. It could be argued, I said. But, arguing with a fool is always a bad idea. ...
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