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The unspoken reason why people prefer to live in the suburbs is right here, about half way down in this story. A couple sitting in their minivan were shot at in North Minneapolis and the woman was hit in the eye by a bullet. Not surprising when you realize, as the story notes, that 40 people have reported being wounded by gunfire in the North Minneapolis police precinct since the first of the year. That's more than one per day.
Rather, it's the oft-spoken reason why people prefer not to live in North Minneapolis.
I have to admit that while I read this story I seriously rethought moving to the Philips neighborhood and my practice of walking up and down Hennepin Avenue in Uptown. Why stay here and risk that happening if I can move to (insert suburb) and be virtually assured it will never happen?
I have never ever dissed the capital-S Suburbs. The small-S suburbs remain very, very dissable.
What is one to say about an area when, if these people were anywhere else in the Cities this would not have happened?
Chan Poling is pretty cool, isn't he from the Suburbs?
Kevin:
And in moving to (insert suburb) you will be virtually assured that you will never think about walking again...
First off, to sound off on a fairly common complaint -- North Minneapolis is not a monolithic crime-ridden region. Yes, there are areas of North (such as Jordan) that have higher incidences of crime than others. However, there are several areas of North that count among the safest in the city -- Victory, Lind-Bohanan and Camden are diverse, quiet, and safe areas to live, but consistently get lumped into the "North is scary" argument.
Second, I don't care where you live, suburbs or city, there's crime. Random violence occurs everywhere. Eden Prairie has had some entertaining issues with coke, Hastings just recently was splashed across the headlines for a high-profile murder. I won't argue that actuarially you stand a better chance of being a victim of violent crime in the city. But it's a question of what you value and what's important to you -- of what lifestyle is right for you.
Even as a "suburbian resident" living in Apple Valley, I can't say that they are any more safe than anywhere else... Please let me know when the drug-related murders and windshield bashings (with shovels) cease in Burnsville.
I really fear the days when suburbs like Apple Valley (loaded with cheap and quickly constructed housing packed tightly together) become the new home to lower income people as the rest of us are pushed further and further out.
Richq, you are right. I know of a sexual assault in Kenwood, for god's sake. The difference, of course, is the Mpls police were right on it and had the creep in custody within half an hour. Not to mention several neighbors, including a woman who just happened to be driving by, came to the woman's aid.
I'll echo what's been said thus far, ranging from not living in NORTH to North as a non-monolithic entity, the greatness of Uptown walkability, and the day when cheap housing transfers blight to the suburbs.
Every day, my fiancee's mom hears about something happening in Minneapolis, and immediately assumes her daughter and I are in immediate danger because the incident was in a 5 mile radius of Uptown. Her son is much closer to that action, just across the imaginary border in Brooklyn Center. Never mind that the safety of city living is proven -- intentional death/injury rates in the city are balanced out by the higher rate of accidental death in exurban areas (lots more driving). Another way of spinning that is to say you're less likely to die by the hands of a stranger in the city.
Lets all take a look at actual reported crimes in Minneapolis instead of anecedotal memories from news reports and see where the real safe areas are in Minneapolis.
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crime-statistics/codefor/
I personally live in the very safe Waite Park Area.
Check it out for yourself!
I'd personally like to invite any and all who think it's only safe to live in the suburbs, to move there. We don't want you in the city anyway.
I really fear the days when suburbs like Apple Valley (loaded with cheap and quickly constructed housing packed tightly together) become the new home to lower income people as the rest of us are pushed further and further out.
Whenever I drive through the suburbs, this is exactly what I think of. "Building the slums of tomorrow today." Even the worst parts of Minneapolis have some great things going for them: adjacency to downtown, the river and lakes, historically interesting buildings. We've seen just these advantages at work in the revival of large sections of Phillips.
But why would anybody want to redevelop [insert name of 1970's second ring suburb here] when the demographic worm turns?
Brooklyn Cente? Richfield? East Bloomington? already the hood.
I knew this kind of bullshit would start appearing on MNSpeak once it was "sold." The slow death of another intelligent local website begins. Peace.
There was a report in the Strib last year that said it was safer to live in the citiy then in the suburbs. Something about having a greater chance at getting into a serious car accident then getting shot or attacked.
When you live in the suburbs you are more likely to shoot yourself.
jmullan, be warned: I'm going to steal that line from you.
I'm glad someone brought up the car accident topic. Many many more people are killed in Minnesota in car accidents than from crime, and it makes sense that those suburban living people who drive all the time are at much greater risk than bus/bike riding, low mile driving urbanites.
And really, one reason some people choose to live in the burbs is definitely a somewhat irrational fear of crime, it's not unsaid at all, racism is also a reason, and that is not unsaid either if you can read their code.
Bx, the story was in the Strib, just to be clear. Or don't you find it noteworthy that 40 people have been wounded in North Minneapolis in just over a month? All I was suggesting is that there has been, in general, a lot of anti-suburban bias on MNSpeak, which is, of course, balanced by a lot of anti-city bias in the suburbs (and the Legislature.)
Further, I should have noted that most of the violence on the north side is black on black and doesn't receive the coverage that the shooting of one white woman engenders in the paper and all the TV stations. Maybe we could talk about that instead of who owns MNSpeak, because, for the life of me, I can't quite fathom MNSpeak's ownership's relevance to this discussion...unless of course you think we should just concentrate on who's playing at First Avenue this week.
P.S. I live in the city, and have been the victim of a violent crime...in the city.
In Tom's defense, naming posts are the hardest part of MNSpeak. It takes a lot of cleverness and a lot of practice. This post is certainly warranted, however, it's not a reason to stop dissing the suburbs.
I would also like to point out that the leading cause of death in MSP suburbs is "roundhouse kick from Jason DeRusha".
Regardless of ownership...last time I checked posts were supposed to be local and relevant; both of which I feel this post is.
One more thing, my cousins and friends who live in the suburbs will testify that I'm an unrepentant and constant 'burb basher.
So said ----:
"And really, one reason some people choose to live in the burbs is definitely a somewhat irrational fear of crime, it's not unsaid at all, racism is also a reason, and that is not unsaid either if you can read their code."
Let me in on the code, ----, as I am unenlightened.
while there certainly are some areas of the Twin Cities that aren't exactly places i like to walk around by myself after dark, as someone who grew up in a town of 2500 in Montana, and who has travelled to quite a lot of larger cities in the US and more recently Europe, even the "slums" in Minneapolis really aren't THAT bad.
there's nothing like Southside Chicago or Over The Rhine here in Mpls, i think the people who often complain about certain neighborhoods of Mpls (like i said, i realize there ARE bad neighborhoods) need to get out a bit more and get some perspective.
another thing i really notice whenever i go to Chicago and come back, is how frickin' CLEAN the Twin Cities are comparatively.
Taylor is correct. Just this morning I eliminated 2 trophy wives from the Lifetime Fitness Club in Maple Groves. Behold the roundhouse.
Can some please explain the need to 'bash' where people choose to live? I couldn't fathom the thought of living or raising my children in the 'urban city' but, I don't feel the need to hate your choice to live there...
lol Jason!
btw, any chance we could get a quote feature/function for commenting?
i tend to agree Eric, i mean it IS funny to poke fun lightly at suburanite trends such as Olive Garden, Krispy Kreme, etc., but i really don't care one way or the other.
i prefer to live "closer to the action", because i go to about 100 concerts a year and moving further out wouldn't allow me to do that, but no offense to people who don't do those types of things. i also hate long commutes as well that's another reason.
i will say though, that while i enjoy the shopping and eating that Maple Grove has to offer in that ever-growing area at 494/694, looking at it from the Interstate, it really is the epitome of Suburbia in a nutshell. kinda scary how much it's grown in the last 2 years even.
When I bring friends out here they are either amazed or horrified. There's not a lot of inbetween when it comes to the MG's development. Consider me a 'tweener. I love the convenience, despise the homogeny.
plus you get picked up every morning via WCCO's private copter that jets you to downtown ;)
speaking of Helicopters, can someone explain why the Twin Cities doesn't really have much in the way of Traffic Copters? when i go to Denver i'm always amazed cuz they seem to have like 20.
I'm not positive: but WCCO and KARE own our helicopters. In Denver and in many other cities, stations lease choppers from other companies. As part of the lease, they get x number of hours in the air. So there's a higher incentive to fly all the time.
Here, the incentive is much lower. In Milwaukee at my old station, we flew every day. The "traffic" report was just an excuse to have the chopper up in the air at news time in the event that breaking news happened.
cool, figured you'd be the right person to ask that!
i've wondered since i moved here in '99
Brooklyn Center the hood? Oh my.
I grew up there, my parents still live there and they don't lock their doors. Yes, it's terrifying.
derusha, the trophy wife comment. Good one. And something I've thought of myself on occasion...
Thanks, Slim. Incidentally, I don't want to be attacked as anti-trophy wife. I'm firmly pro-trophy wife.
It'd be cool if we had a 'crimetracker' like Tampa-St. Pete where you can see a graphic representation of crime concentrations in various areas of the metro.
One guess I'll make with absolutely no hard data to back me up: the explosion of crystal meth is helping the rate of crimes like assault and robbery grow faster in suburbia and rural areas than in the urban core. Again, just a guess.
jderusha -- when you're done at Lifetime, there's a large group of trophy wives who desperately need kicking at the Northwest club in St. Louis Park. I'll pay. Please.
Why does everyone insist on fighting about which is better--suburbs or urban areas? The fact is that both exist and they always will. What gets lost in all this is rural areas: cool or uncool? Safe or unsafe? If you actually think you're cooler or more informed or more diverse just because you live in "the city," forget it. I live in an ancient complex around Minnetonka/SLP/Hopkins and I see more African Americans in my own building than I do in Uptown or NE. And there's liberals too. Even some gays! Who knew they existed outside of "the city"?
And why do I live in the 'burbs? Because I work in the burbs and want to cut down on my commute. Plus, it's much cheaper for a nicer place, and I can still walk to some (locally owned) shops. And I practically live in a park. It's great.
Man, I don't know where to start. Since I live in Jordan, I can't argue that an unfair amount of s**t happens here on the Northside. WHY?? The answer isn't exactly pin-point-able, but I can say that part of the answer is Suburban Flight.. exactly what Garcia says above.. heaven forbid the lower income folks should move in around 'us' and push 'us' farther and farther out. *LIGHT BULB MOMENT* How about you stay living near this exotic creature, the lower income folk, and perhaps you will both learn something from each other - you will both adapt!!
This whole thread is a crock of paranoid bs at its worst. Why is tom bernard posting on here anyway? Aren't there enough outlets for the White Racist Majority to spew their Hateful Garbage? In case you haven't noticed, Mr. Owner, people have been streaming into downtown minneapolis condos for the bast couple of years to ESCAPE the mind numbing boredom of the Suburbs -Applebys, Olive Garden, Wal-Mart uber alles et. al. They don't come because they want to be hip elitists. They come because they crave culture and a sense of community. So MOST thinking people DON'T prefer the Suburbs. Perhaps you should.
City Boy is absolutely right. This thread reminds me of people who constantly refer to broken items or run down buildings as "ghetto." Who the f*** are they to define what is and isn't ghetto... Just like who the f*** is MSP to define "hipster."
Yes, but you seem to have forgotten the point here...
40 DAMN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHOT IN ONE MONTH.
Not in the metro area, not in the Twin Cities, not even in Minneapolis...
Just in North Minneapolis alone. So shut up about how awesome the city is, and maybe try to think about why this has happened, and why neither the mayor nor the police chief seem to care.
hopkins is where it's at.
How many hipsters on MNSpeak came from a suburb anywhere, raise your hand? Almost all of you. That's what I thought.
>>> So MOST thinking people
Whenever people start telling me what "most thinking people" think, I tune right out. Because it usually isn't.
How many hipsters on MNSpeak came from a suburb anywhere, raise your hand?
Nope. Mpls born and raised.
And DaveM, check out Chicago's map!
Seriously--if Rex/the new guys allow more ignorant posts (not comments, mind you) like this one, MNSpeak is going down. It's suburbanites like that who give decent, city-loving folks like me who happen to live in a burb a bad name. Shoo, shoo I say!
I said it before and I'll say it again--is this turning into the twin_cities LiveJournal community? So sad.
It wouldn't be a problem if all of the hip people moved into the city, and the bad people moved into the burbs. It's a win-win situation. ;)
savman, you are right. The real story here is the fact that 40 people have been shot in North Minneapolis this year. But what needs to be done to stop the violence? Are the funding cuts in the city adding to the problem?
It seems like the good people of North Minneapolis are sick of it and have tried to organize events and a citizen watch, but it doesn't seem to be working. Why not?
Isn't there a word for assuming a group of people is ignorant, uncreative and generally less worthwhile base completely on an unrelated factors like geographical location skin color or the type of job they have?
To me it seems like crime and the economy are linked. Not to try and explain what causes crime in 100 words but I personally think that recovery from the bad economy of the last few years has yet to reach the people that are most effected and being jobless with no future leads to drug use and crime.
Anyone know if they have micro umemployment stats for areas of the city? I would guess that the higher the unemployment rate is in an area the higher the crime and I don't think that crime for the most part is causing unemployment if you get my drift.
Maybe we need programs to get some of these 15-30 male year olds good jobs and a future.
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