- Filter by:
- All
High: 27° / Low: 16° — Dude Weather Subscribe to Secrets Minneapolis / St. Paul
The NYTimes is reporting turmoil at the Village Voice as a new editor is awaited. As we have discussed previously, the Voice is part of the same nationwide conglomerate as our own City Pages -- and was recently acquired by a new owner. There appears to have been significant turnover at the Voice, including the controversial dismissal of journalist James Ridgeway. Now, Gawker is reporting that the Voice has fired Robert Christgau and Chuck Eddy, two of the nation's best-known music critics. Are these issues unique to NYNY -- say, fallout from some well-publicized tomfoolery -- or do they bode ill for the CP?
Update: More officially, Christgau and Eddy are gone.
All I can say is... WOW.
Great post mike_s
There is also a looong thread here on ILM, where -- at the v. v. bottom -- the rumor was confirmed. I expect it will soon be filled with much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I bet there are close to a dozen [former-]MSP writers who have written for Eddy. I wonder if any of them will chime in here...
Wow, indeed. Talk about the end of an era!
Yeah, thanks for posting this.
You beat me to it. Chuck was one of the best editors I've had the pleasure of working with.
Really shocked by this. Maybe I shouldn't be, given the circumstances, but I am.
Good post, indeed.
(Please Jesus, let the VV keep Tom Breihan's Status Ain't Hood going.)
Chuck Eddy is, IMO, the best rock journalist in America. Certainly the most passionate, and the one who influenced my own writing the most. Damn, damn foolish on the part of the Voice.
And yeah -- I'd say it bodes very ill for City Pages.
Don't worry. Change is usually good, and Robert has many talents and passions to pursue. And besides, there are a thousand and one Christgau imitators -- many with ties to this area -- ready to fill that gap. And what of the Pazz and Jop Poll? Oh, no!! Chuck can go into comedy writing, as his music writing bordered on silly anyway. Don't get me wrong; I like him.
In my special little fantasy world CP would stop doing so much music crticism and actually hire a visual arts editor who cares and reports on visual arts.
Pathetic in a state that touts its art scene and yet lacks any arts coverage. The Rake has been doing a fairly good job. But I mean, geez.
And no, Mary Abbe doesn't count.
My fantasy is that they wouldn't do cover stories about 17 year old gang bangers who get shot dead by other gang bangers and whose relatives deny that they are gang bangers.
And of course, the 'community' says not a word about "who done it".
And Rybak wants to 'interweave' this 'community' with say, Linden Hills?
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
i know there are changes going on at the city pages. they seem to be smaller changes for now, from what i can see from my telescope. (at least compared to the VV) but i wouldn't doubt more significant ones loom. anyone have an insider's view of what's going on?
My fantasy is that people would stop posting idiotic sentiments related to race in this city. And, please, rather than using the term "gang banger" why don't you just say nigger and get it over with.
The most alarming thing about the changes at the Voice is the comment from New Times that it feels its coverage was "too academic," hence Xgau getting the bum's rush. That part makes me a little nervous on CP's behalf; if New Times decides it wants Pitchfork-caliber music coverage, we're in trouble.
I didn't always agree with him or enjoy his writing, but his academic approach was the thing I always admired about Christgau. He really listened to everything he wrote about, and had virtually no stylistic biases or blind spots -- if it was a piece of recorded music, he took it seriously.
I'm sure he'll land on his feet somewhere, but he and the Voice were a perfect match for almost 40 years, and it's a little sad to see that end.
By the way: It's just City Pages. Doesn't include a The, never has.
Maybe City Pages can run another story about how local public housing authorities and "community" development orgaizations are f%@&ed up. I think it's been at least 2 weeks. It's always such a ground breaking report that bring the readers in.
>>> In my special little fantasy world CP would stop doing so much music crticism and actually hire a visual arts editor who cares and reports on visual arts. <<<
Visual artists and the leeches who make money off of them always claim they want more coverage, but only if it's of the fawning, drooling type. They don't want anything approaching actual criticism.
The best part of CP are the ads in the back. ya' know........
A full airing of the changes afoot here. FWIW, i think this probably IS isolated to NY, because the Voice is a unique paper with unique problems, and the flagship/namesake of the new company, after all.
Um, I'm a visual artist and welcome crticism. The problem is the Twin Cities media is that there is almost zero criticism for visual arts - positive or negative. In CP we can count on several music reviews, multiple film reviews and a theater review or two. Visual art reviews comes rarely.
And who's doing fawning and drooling coverage? And who's this elusive "they" you speak of, the entire visual arts community? Meh.
Visual artists are almost worse than "local actors" at taking actual criticism.
I also wish there were more visual culture criticism on the scene. And I think there are several ways to manifest this in unique & provactive & interesting ways -- I'd love to edit that section...
...HOWEVER, as it pertains to this thread, that's probably the exact opposite of what you're going to start seeing out of alt-weeklies across the country in the New Times empire.
Agreed w/ rex.
And the reason? Music venues and bars buy a LOT of advertising in alt-weeklies.
When they start serving mojitos at your local gallery is when they'll be able to afford underwriting the freebie papers, and when New Times will be interested in rehiring those sacked arts editors.
rex -
did you get invited to the Chinese reception at Bill Gates home yesterday?
Not invited to that, but was invited to a campus event. But instead of going, I just cursed at the world for my two-hour commute created from a confluence of protesters/security/gawking.
tell me more...
Are there protesters there everyday?
No, just yesterday. I think the president is over at Boeing today.
After two hours in the car, all I could think was, "And for believing that the Chinese oppression of Falung Gong has nothing to do with you, here's your punishment."
rex - that was the highlight of my day.
I told myself I wouldn't comment on this thread, but watching how this started off with people getting fired in New York and ended up in a traffic jam in Seattle was wonderful.
And to bring it full circle, check out this Klosterman quote from this little interview:
"I think the music industry is in trouble, but I would say people who write about rock music are in more trouble than the artist. Ten years ago people read rock magazines to be introduced to new bands. Now, you don't need a rock critic to tell you what's good."
You can agree or disagree with that (I "half agree"), but it's interesting that someone like myself who started life as a rock critic ends up working on peer/collaborative systems that contribute to a culture that sadly cleaves off those jobs.
Sigh.
Christgau is a terrific writer but I don't think I've ever read Eddy. Maybe it's because I rarely read the Voice. But my favorite music critics today are Kelefa Sanneh and Sasha Frere-Jones of the Times and The New Yorker, respectively. Those two (Sanneh and Frere-Jones) have turned me on to loads of great stuff over the last several years and are not so rock-centric like most of the other critics.
For music critics, i turn to paste magazine...
As for music mags, I dig URB and Blender.
You can chill a little bit Xgau lovers...Gawker admits to premature reportulation, and while Eddy totally got the "have a nice life," Christgau might still be around. Old white male rock criticism lives on. All is safe in rock. For now!
Great choices, Brian. in my somewhat jaundiced view, those guys' main asset is that they avoid rock-crit cliche like anathema. It's a field just loaded with crap jargon and secret handshakes, and as music becomes less relevant as a meaningful art form, the secret club of rock crits also becomes less relevant.
I always liked Eddy and Christgau as the very best practitioners of rock/pop crit for readers of rock/pop crit. But compare 'em to Klosterman or Nick Hornby or Frere-Jones, and you see wordsmiths who manage to write pop crit for all the rest of us--- we the general reader.
Um, there's a rock-crit cliche BECAUSE of people like Christgau
and I don't see how music is "less relevant as a meaningful art form" - what really has changed? same as it ever was...
OK, mntw, i'll call: name a band or artist, any genre, who's doing music that is as important today as punk was, 1976-1980. or post-punk xcirca 1990? or hip-hop, same periods? who is doing, for example, protest music today on a serious, national scale?
conversely, which two or three corporations today monopolize the entire music industry from A&R to radio to critical coverage?
i guess i'm talking about music that aims for the space between pure pop, American-Idol style garbage, and navel-gazing art-school garbage like the Strokes? there was a time--not coincidentally, the period when alt-weeklies went from being punkish zines to serious media companies--when music really mattered to people, in a way it hadn't since the late sixties, and a way that it hasn't since... well, since about the time St. Kurt blew his head off, in Rex's new neighborhood. (I knew I could bring this all back around to Rex, somehow--thus justifying such a rambling and specious argument.)
Yeah, but the pattern isn't one of historical decline; it's one of waves -- while 1991 was pretty awesome, and 1976 was pretty awesome, 1988 wasn't. We happen to be in 1988 again right now, and something will come along and kick us out of it.
(Some might at this point suggest the emergence of mashup culture. I don't feel like getting ridiculed, so I won't try to make the argument.)
And The Pussycat Dolls are totally revolutionary!
(At this point in the thread, I feel obliged to link to Peter's 1984 series. Everyone knows that was the greatest year in music but no one really realized it at the time.)
1969
If you weren't born, or conscious, (or unconscious), and can't remember, that's tough shit!
See Hans, its hard to answer your questions because you have already decided that 1970s punk = important, new music = worthless. So I can tell you what artists and genres I think are doing important things but it wont really matter because you seem to have made up your mind about what equals important. Heres the thing though, you seem to be judging importance based on the standard rock critic model which in many ways I think is messed up. Theres this notion that certain music is real or pure or true or rock which really means music that was made before 1975 or music nobody actually listens to. Popular music is disregarded as foolish pre-teen girl crap, but I just dont think theres really that much of a difference between say, Blondies One Way Or Another and Kelly Clarcksons Since U Been Gone. Yet because Debbie hung out with arty folks in the New York scene and Kelly was on a TV show, despite the number of records Kelly sells and the number of kids she matters to, she will go down in rock history as just another unimportant teeny-bopper.
Kelly may not be important to you, but to a lot of people, especially young girls, she is important. And music thats out now may not matter to you either, but it does to a lot of kids. I think its really obvious how much music matters to them just by looking at their blogs or myspace pages or podcasts theres a lot of dialogue happening about music, it just might not be happening in the same way as it used to. Is this good or bad? I dont think either, its just a different way.
As far as protest music goes, maybe its not such a bad thing that were not following the 60s - so we can pretend listening to a bunch of Dylan records and smoking pot is really doing something? Plus I dont think music has to address politics directly in lyrics to be political and I think theres plenty of popular music, especially hip hop right now, thats doing interesting things, like Sean Paul blending a lot of different styles from all over the world into one fantastic dancehall party. Plus, isnt shaking your ass supposed to be the most revolutionary action? Id rather be getting down to some Missy Elliot than say, Nirvana. If you dont like whats on the radio now both in terms of the top 40 and the college stuff thats cool, listen to your iPod. But I just think its unfair to always be crying about how music USED to be important or matter or blah blah blah&like I said before, same as it ever was&things change but not that much.
How dare you accuse Hans of being a standard rock critic! He used to be an editor at Spin, fer chrissakes!
[Insert emoticon.]
(I don't mind Clarkson, but she's no Blondie. Period. She'll be remembered as somewhere between Debbie Harry and Debbie Gibson.)
: (---------BLAAAARGH
mntw: Plus, isn't shaking your ass supposed to be the most revolutionary action?
Uhhh. no. Not unless you go to Bethel, and if that's the case there are still a lot of actions--e.g., "lying, dishonesty, gossip, slander, backbiting, profanity, vulgarity (including crude language), sexual promiscuity, drunkenness, immodesty of dress, and occult practices"--that would be considered much more revolutionary.
Dudes...haven't you listened to Fall Out Boy? I mean, how can you say that given emo's ability to turn phony heartbreak into a cash cow?
(Insert whatever emoticon here...possibly the one of an emoticon vomiting all over another emoticon's faux hawk.)
Also...what Hans said.
A rockist. I'm ashamed to admit that i was unaware of this whiz-bang new label, but it's a very useful idea, and one that I seem to go on stepping knee-deep in, without realizing it. Physician heal thyself! I did it by kinda getting out of the biz altogether. Ran screaming, actually. (Matt: It's not a self-pimp as long as we're all making fun of me here.)
these conversations are an endless loop (and entertaining--particularly to young white men), but to get back to fdist principles: What is art? How is some music art, and other artless? I guess I mean music that points beyond itself to greater meaning, and there is not a lot of that around right now. Rex's point is obvious and good--these things swing on a pendulum. Or do they? As I said, the "industry" is buttoned up so tight at this point, that truly great, independent music is getting to be a pretty rare thing. (Even locally, the pressure to record and sign to a label means no development time in the shit-smeared basement, peeing in empty bottles of Miller High Life, and stealing each others boyfriends/girlfriends, and writing angry songs about it.)
But top bring this thing to a full, rockist stop, I will myself now answer the question, Who is making music anyone will remember in 20 years? There is one (only one) correct answer.
The Flaming Lips.
And, by the way, just to seal my new rep as a complete dick, let me say that protest music is a bit older than the 1960s--goes back at least as far as Martin Luther, maybe even all the way to "Let My People Go."
Okay, I'll nibble back. A short "consensus list" of contemporary "music that matters" that we'll still listen to in 20 years: The White Stripes, Bjork, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Beck, Kanye, M.I.A., Sleater-Kinney, Radiohead, Eminem, Wilco, Flaming Lips.
And other contenders: Arcade Fire, Le Tigre, Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, Danger Mouse, Spoon, Broken Social Scene, Bright Eyes, The Mars Volta, Sigur Ros, Sufjan Stevens, LCD Soundsystem, Ladytron, Animal Collective, Art Brut, Gorillaz, Boards of Canada, Franz Ferdinand, Missy Elliott, TV on the Radio, The Hold Steady, Bloc Party, 50 Cent, Wolf Parade, The Go! Team.
I'm don't mean to incite a name-checking riot here. I just think that looks like an okay list of music.
(BTW, I'm also on the record as a rockist, as defined by the popists. While the goddamn ILM crowd keeps trying to convince you of the brilliance of the new Ashlee Simpson album, I'll replay Prince's version of "When You Were Mine" for my pure pop.)
not a bad list, rex. i'd throw out half of them, 'course. Hell, sleater-kinney doesn;t get listened to one hour after their new one arrives, not even by people who "love them." i'd trade Cat Power for them AND the white stripes, who plagiarized Jon Spencer something awful.
but i already admitted i don't know, uh, shinola from shoe polish anymore. besides, i was the technology and humor editor at Spin. also, the Scottish mope-rock expert. (I quit in protest over Coldplay. Travis deserved that!)
also, i've already listened to that M.I.A. disc for the equivalent of 20 years, but still--good call. (and props to the Current/Mark Wheat AND MNSpeak, for turning me on to that devilishy great artist.)
For my personal list, I'd knock half of the things off there too (Sufjan), and then add a bunch of shit that people would make fun of me for (Autechre!).
And for a lot of those bands, it's so early to tell how they'll evolve. I mean, look at Radiohead. Did anyone expect greatness from them after their first album? Hell, they were still goofballs after their third album. Same with the Flaming Lips. If you look at it from that perspective, the Arcade Fire is going to be U2 next year.
Also, since this thread is wandering everywhere, I just want to be the first person to say the Yeah Yeah Yeahs album is waaaaaaaaaaay better than the fogies have been telling you. Mark my words, this is one the critics are all going to regret... maybe even by the end of the year.
Hey, guys, just because rock music is on its self-reverential ass doesn't mean all popular music is in a bad state. I think hip-hop, worldbeat, and DJ music has never been better and more widely available than it is today. And I think this is due, in large part, to technology and globalisation. I'm constantly hearing disparate and interesting inluences in even the cheesiest pop music that were not present in years past, such as reggaeton, baille funk, grime, dub, house, dancehall etc. Just because geeky rock-snobs haven't copped on, doesn't mean that there are not positive and meaningful developments in music today.
How has a music thread this long, gone without mentioning the Arctic Monkeys, the Strokes, or the Libertines? Great comments though so far... great list Rex!
Those "rockist" links above are terrific, especially the one from the New York Times, which I feel gets it exactly right. And Hans, why the fuck should Sigur Ros incorprate traditional Icelandic folk into its music? Why is it that if an act is from a "foreign" country, they are automatically expected to play roots music native to that country, lest the act be considered (gasp) "inauthentic," whatever that means? I've never understood this sentiment and it remains widespread for no apparent reason.
why should Sigur Ros incorprate traditional Icelandic folk into its music?
I'm not saying they should, or that they do. They don't. I guess I was saying they don't show any obvious influences at all (and they apparently HATE people saying silly things about the "cold, windswept, glacial" sound of their music). Sigur are not inauthentic, they fuggin RAWK!
The piece was more about trying to define what "important" music, or "art rock" really is, and whether there is an audience for it anymore. (Thus, it IS a rockist spiel, I confess it again.)
There hasn't been a truly great band in any genre since Blue Öyster Cult.
I will take the continuing silence of this thread as agreement.
I miss reading about how New Yorkers spent $600,000 for 450 square feet of space.
Sniff!
I'm starting my own paper! Screw this New Times bullsh1t.!
"Rockism" isn't a whiz-bang new term at all; it's been around about 25 years, was coined during the post-punk era by the UK press. There's more about this in Simon Reynolds' great new book Rip It Up and Start Again, but really you should read that book whatever its ties to a phrase someone called someone else in the comments section of a blog.
As far as ILM pumping Ashlee Simpson goes, Rex, I don't recall ever seeing any threads where that happened. Sounds like a strawman to me, but maybe I'm wrong.
So you are "grousing about a pop landscape dominated by big-budget spectacle, high-concept photo shoots, reminscing about a time when the charts were packed with people who had something to say, and meant it, even if that time never actually existed. If this sounds like you, then take a long look in the mirror: you might be a rockist." That's from "The Rap Against Rockism" by Kalefa Sanneh in the Times. I'm convinced that indie-rockers are the new rockists, and they're even more uptight and boring than the classic rockers, who are the old school rockists. Indeed, "Disco Sucks" has given way to "Music today is all about the bling and the 'ho's and the domination of the big record companies" and such other misguided notions. The post from yesterday by mntw is correct to point out that not much has really changed.
This is why I only listen to The Wiggles.
Side note on "I Hate 1984" to anyone who comes across this: I hope to reformat all those Wanda letters (so you can see them in the updated CP blog format) and actually post them all like I promised two years ago. Wanda actually emailed me and was cool with it, too.
i guess i'm talking about music that aims for the space between pure pop, American-Idol style garbage, and navel-gazing art-school garbage like the Strokes?
what a bizarre and depressing sentence. sorry but there is so little "space" between these two things! there are oceans of water out to the left and right of each and you want something between them? what for? i don't get it. and i don't get what "pure" is supposed to mean there; purity is about the last thing AIdol serves up, and it doesn't sound like you've heard much actual navel-gazing art-school garbage, since that's about the last thing the Strokes are either. "boy band for city girls" is what everyone has ever said about them! and kelly clarkson's big hit sounds like omg the yeahx3s! so i have read!
and no one's stopping you from listening to the next twenty five soft bulletin retreads from here until doomsday anyway! and you have a state-supported commercial-free station playing them all day, in your hometown! fuck, some people get exactly what they want, and it's not enough.
this is the first thing i've written on mnspeak in months. hi rex!
It makes me very pleased to see you..... across oceans, or something such.
geoff, take it easy. breathe. freedom, baby! it's been a while since you posted. remember how trivial and silly it can be? that's GOOD. you're getting back into the swing of things!
pop=bad. rock=good. hip-hop=guilty.
now let's hear some fucking recommendations, or take that shit outside.
Xgau was an unreadable pretentious ponce. The funniest thing was when Lou Reed publicly savaged him on his live _Take No Prisoners_ album. Xgau also insisted that all rock critics LOVE hip-hop, or be not so subtly labelled as "racist." Why should a rock critic have to love hip-hop? Isn't that a job for a HIP-HOP critic? Face it, this guy was an asshole.
Chuck Eddy? I was told by a writer that knew him that he was a total prick, but he seemed better than Xgau.
The Village Voice has degenerated into a mainly erotic gay rag. It's not worth reading anymore. Was a great paper in the 60s though. City Pages is going the same way with its "disgust" theme. It has become a trashy caricature of itself. NOTHING worth reading. Like the VV, CP is heavily subsidized by gay sex ads. In fact, the only decent weeklies are Downtown Journal and Southwest Journal.
However be careful about starting your own magazine. It's an all-consuming enterprise to even do a monthly four pager. I know!
From the Strib: Former U.S. Attorney for Minnesota Rachel K. Paulose retaliated against a top prosecutor in her office who reported her for careless handling of classified homeland security reports, a watchdog agency said Wednesday.…
Andrea Swensson tackles the 11 year legacy of the Minnesota hip hop supergoup the Heiruspecs. If you've somehow managed to remain unfamiliar with them, here are some started pages: Their Web page, their MySpace page (with music), and a recent video i…
Aaron points out that it is ridiculously easy to look up someone else's utility bills online here in the Twin Cities, and pay them, if you like. But is this a bug or a feature? After all, utility bills are public information. Aaron does a little digg…
MnHotline has posted an ad looking for people to be in the audience for the taping of pilot game show, "Risk Your Meat," starring the ever bizarre Rich Kronfeld, formerly of Let's Bowl and, er, Dr. Sphincter. Not sure what this might be? It's a meat …
Vikings defensive linemen Kevin Williams and Pat Williams have been suspended for the last 4 regular season games. Both players had taken a weight loss supplement called "StarCaps." The supplement itself isn't banned by the NFL, but it contains an u…
Ok MnSpeak folks, here's the deal: Having seen how it works in other states, I am selling ad space on my exams. I'm not kidding. I'm almost out of copies for the year, and I'm already over $1,000 out of pocket to buy the necessary books and materia…