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High: 27° / Low: 16° — Dude Weather Subscribe to Secrets Minneapolis / St. Paul
[From kwatt's comment re: strib piece in the daily links] A report (pdf) released today by Education Week Magazine shows that fewer than half of Minnesota black high school students graduate with standard diplomas. The 44% graduation rate (v. 83% for whites) is one of the poorest in the country.
Had I not been so lazy earlier, I would have said that I'd like to see the data broken down further, specifically by region. I'd also like to see comparisons between black kids in MPS and other schools. Maybe that's already out there, I'm too lazy to look it up.
Thanks kwatt for bringing it up. Too bad data was insufficient for most other groups of color. I did see a 34.4% graduation rate for American Indian males. That's one in three high school seniors actually graduating. Wow. The community is really failing these kids.
and they just pink slipped over 300 teachers.
Way to go! Glad we can afford highway projects and stadiums, though!
Here's one point of view - every "new" project, program, outreach, etc. program we've tried hasn't worked.
It's because we're not treating the root cause. The root cause is that the majority culture wants to go a first way, and a minority culture wants to go a second way. I often times believe the minority culture feels disenfranchised, and goes in the opposite direction just to spite the majority culture.
So guess which one wins.
An employer can hire people who "ask for help". That employer can choose not to hire people who "axe for help". These are culture differences, not race differences. It is illegal to discriminate based on race. It is legal to discriminate based on culture. Immutable = illegal, mutable = legal.
Race doesn't really have anything to do with it. A lot of people of one race tend to participate in the minority culture, but they don't have to. That's what's great about the USA. You have the freedom to participate in whatever culture you want. Just know that some cultures give you a lot more than other cultures do.
The minority culture will continue to fail until it does a better job marching in step with the majority culture. The majority culture has to use its resources to treat this problem. All the other things it's been trying to do have been a waste of time.
The minority cultures don't need to match with the majority. We are no longer the "melting pot" U.S.A. where people all assimilate and become the same. We're now referred to in the "salad analogy." Each group can retain its uniqueness and yet still contribute in meaningful ways to the whole product. In an ideal system, there would be no "dominant" culture that others should strive to be. People should just be as they are and be accepted for it and teachers should teach using resources and materials best for the students that they have, not based on some standard that doesn't fit with their students.
I think that's BS. I think we need an American culture that we can all subscribe to that unites everyone. That doesn't mean people have to stop being of their descent, but they have to be American first. Otherwise we're just Kurds and Shiites and that mess.
The salad analogy isn't proven. And it isn't going to cut it in the long run.
Theoretically, I posit that the world cannot tolerate the inefficiencies of perpetual culture gap. People are tribal. We have success when we march in step. We struggle when we don't. We're not really programmed to constantly deal with new tribal attributes all the time.
Practically, by the recent study by Mincy (Columbia) et al., your salad analogy is putting 6 in 10 mid-20s african american black men who don't finish school in jail. And it's getting worse. Because as a society we're not putting a hard stop on the madness. We're trying to figure out a way to embrace a culture which hurts its adherents.
Screw that! Kill the cutlure. It's less than 100 years old anyway.
Why must we try and preserve the culture? Because we can? It is fun to flex our muscles and show the world how free we are?
As a man wiser than me once said, "just because you can eat the jelly donut doesn't mean you should."
I am not optimistic about the future of a nation that canabalizes itself from within due to perpetual culture wars.
Each group can retain its uniqueness and yet still contribute in meaningful ways to the whole product.
Laura, are you saying that being uneducated is part of black people's uniqueness and that failure in school is something to be celebrated? Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that just politically correct racism?
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I'm going to quote George W. Bush (actually Michael J. Gerson, so I guess I'm okay). What you're talking about is the "soft racism of low expectations."
I did not say that failure in school is something to be celebrated. I was saying we should preserve people's cultures while teaching them in ways that work for them so that they can learn. Never in my post did I say yay to school failure or yay to under-education. I am a teacher and don't try to fight me on this...this is the direction that schools are moving in. It's called EQUITY and it raises the achievement of lower achievement of lower-achieveing students.
According to Anti-Strib, we should blame THE LIBERALS.
Heh.
What culture are we preserving? The Yo! MTV Culture?
I just don't get it. People want instant riches and are not willing to work for them. That's what it comes down to.
Our culture doesn't celebrate scientists or writers it celebrates athletes and lottery winners. Until that changes nothing will.
BTW I still love that the twins are getting a stadium...I'm a hypocrite just like the rest of you I'm just aware enough to say it.
your salad analogy is putting 6 in 10 mid-20s african american black men who don't finish school in jail.
I'm pretty sure at least 2 or 3 of the other 4 are being shot to death too. Bad situation all around.
I'm going to make one statement about this. Well, really two, but contained in one comment, if you want to be completely anal.
1) Schools throughout the U.S. are not serving minority communities as well as they should. This is due to any number of reasons -- from a preponderance of white teaching staff, to uneven enforcement of rules and regulations, to outright discrimination.
2) That said, the schools are most definitely not entirely at fault. Parents and families need to step up to the plate, set high expectations for their children, and not provide excuses for failure and poor behavior.
If either of these situations aren't addressed, these numbers just aren't going to change.
And Kwatt -- grad rates in Mpls and St. Paul are significantly different.. Plus, regional grad rates, without context, aren't going to give you a good feel for what's going on. For example -- it's not necessarily because Edina's schools are so much better than the grad rate there (for whites and minorities) are higher than in MSP. The families there are in dramatically different demographics/tax brackets, there are higher expectations, some influences that can negatively impact learning just don't exist in Edina, etc.etc.etc.
White belts of the world unite for racial equity!
Schools do not serve minority communities well enough. I agree, richg. The notion of a one-size-fits-all education may have worked in the 1950s, but times have changed. Schools and teachers need to learn to relate to and meet the needs of ALL their students.
As far as "killing the culture" that is a racist way to think of things. That would be like saying the "white" culture is best and that everyone should try to emulate it. That's just a poor way to think of things. Celebrating diversity, the salad bowl, etc...these ways of thinking allow people to be unique! These ways of thinking allow for Kwanzaa, Juneteenth, multicultural literature, different types of churches and temples and mosques, ethnic foods, and more! We need to respect and celebrate each other's rich heritage and ancestry, not throw it all away to be all the same.
Someone mentioned that the salad bowl analogy gives blacks low graduation rates or puts them in prison. It is not the analogy that does that, it's the teachers and school staff that only teach one way and make certain kids feel left out, isolated, and confused.
As far as "killing the culture" that is a racist way to think of things. That would be like saying the "white" culture is best and that everyone should try to emulate it.
Laura, I think he was referring to the 'culture' that many inner city blacks subsribe to. The gangster culture (used loosley)---You know, the one that emphasizes guns, money, pussy, and 'gettin yours."
Now this in no way means that this culture describes that of all blacks, but to pretend it is not a completely destructive, and widespread culture in the iner city black community, is just being naive and/or ignorant. There is nothing about the 'gangsta' culture that needs to be embraced.
The gangsta culture probably has a lot to do with the low graduation rates. People begin to work the street in search of something more exciting and lucrative than just attending school and graduating. They see the guys in the hood who are well respected and feared, and without guidance from any real role models, the strive to attain that sort of glory.
THAT is the 'culture' that needs to be killed. Real cultures that do not embrace violence and irresponsibility are more than welcome. And that is where the great diversity, languages and ethnic food, etc comes from.
"The gangster culture (used loosley)---You know, the one that emphasizes guns, money, pussy, and 'gettin yours."
Funny, because in my experience, this description applies to mainstream white culture. Have you ever been in a white, affluent suburban highschool? And yet somehow that school has a high graduation rate and "gettin yours" actually works, through the exploitation of the poor by white, corporate america. So "culture" is the problem? Wouldn't that make us white folk feel better without us having to take responsibility for our role in the problem.
I blame the rappers. Honestly! So many swears!
All I know is that working a corporate 9-5 job doesn't allow me to afford any bling ):
Laura: What happens to the gifted kids when our teachers have to focus on teaching things umpteen different ways to the kids who supposedly need some other kind of 'needs' that need to be met to learn? How can we expect teachers to customize learning methods for each individual student and their 'needs'?
My Grandpa didn't even speak English when he went to school but they didn't take any special measures to accomodate his 'needs' and he learned to adapt just fine, just like everyone else that came to the melting pot and made it what it is today. Snodgrass and Kwatt are right, if people are going to succeed they need to adapt to the majority culture. There are plenty of ways they can maintain their culture at home or personally, without our tax payer dollars going to specialized education for each individual culture.
Laura,
You're confusing majority/minority white/black. They're different. I don't think we should kill "black" culture to favor "white culture". I think we should kill "cancerous" culture in favor of "not cancerous" culture. I'm not counting black people, you are.
Don't make this about melatonin. That's the mistake we keep making over, and over again. When some program seeks to reinforce a positive cultural attribute, or to discourage a a negative cultural attribute, people too quickly count up the black people and call it racist if blacks are disproportionately affected.
Stop counting the black people! Pass programs even though, when you count the black people, it appears they specifically target black people! Start writing laws which discriminate solely on mutable characteristics, and which are irreverant of race!
Like nostril width, which can be changed with simple surgery!
Funny, because in my experience, this description applies to mainstream white culture. Have you ever been in a white, affluent suburban highschool? And yet somehow that school has a high graduation rate and "gettin yours" actually works, through the exploitation of the poor by white, corporate america. So "culture" is the problem? Wouldn't that make us white folk feel better without us having to take responsibility for our role in the problem.
Yes, the 'culture' that advocates violence is indeed the problem. We probably don't take enough responsibility for our role in the problem. And depending on how we vote, many of us don't take any responsibility at all.
What about the funding issue? Do you think high graduation rates are correlated with he quality of teachers, equipment, and programs avialable?
What do you attribute the low graduation rate in the black community to?
It certainly isn't biological, now is it. It seems to be largely societal, to me.
When everyone around you is ignoring school in lieu of seemingly 'better' more glamourous things, like getting paid, it's not exactly easy to be the book worm in class.
Instead of theorizing about a "culture of violence" that you seem certain exists in African American culture (from my experience living in largely African-American neighborhoods, I'd say that there is a comparable "culture of going to church" and "culture of trying to raise enough money to pay for rent"), why don't you actually look at some of these schools to see what the problem is. Is it possible that it has somethign to do with understaffing and underfunding? Might it be related to the fact that poor families tend to have higher drop out rates as children go to work full-time sooner? Or is the problem really rap music and bling?
I'll tell you, on the Number 5 bus, I see a lot of people going to and from work, and not so many wanna-be gangstas wearing diamonds and gold.
Instead of theorizing about a "culture of violence" that you seem certain exists in African American culture (from my experience living in largely African-American neighborhoods, I'd say that there is a comparable "culture of going to church" and "culture of trying to raise enough money to pay for rent"), why don't you actually look at some of these schools to see what the problem is. Is it possible that it has somethign to do with understaffing and underfunding? Might it be related to the fact that poor families tend to have higher drop out rates as children go to work full-time sooner? Or is the problem really rap music and bling?
I'll tell you, on the Number 5 bus, I see a lot of people going to and from work, and not so many wanna-be gangstas wearing diamonds and gold.
If you read my post carefully, and slow down a bit, you'll see I did mention the funding issue as a contributor to the gap we are speaking of.
I'm not denying that there are many people struggling and trying their very best to overcome adversity. But when kids with no role models see drug dealing and robbing as an easy alternative to struggling through woefully inadequate schools, it makes sense.
Are you denying that there is a 'culture of violence', which affects not only African American youth, but other youth groups as well?
I am not denying that there is violence in the lives of African-American, I am denying that it is somehow a defining part of their culture.
It hardly seems to me that the problem is that African-Americans only have thugs to look up to, because that's patently not true. Beyond that, well, Violent enertainment is pervasive in American culture, as is "I need to get mine" capitalist role models. To suggest that somehow black kids are more susceptible to these influences, to the degree that it has negatively impacted their abilility to learn in school, is patently absurd and, I suspect, cannot be defended by facts. But because it aplaces the blame for black kids' performance squarely on the backs of the black community, it serves a pretty convenient social function. I grew up watching Friday the 13th movies, and its effects on my grades in school were negligable.
This so-called "culture of violence" your speaking about, if it exists in a unique form in the black comminity, would be, if anything, a symptom of the ills of poverty and racism, and not the cause of those ills.
Point being that the "black culture" y'all are referring to is really no different than the "white culture"(Soprano's anyone? John Wayne anyone?). Both are media constructs, both preach that money, objectified sex, and male dominance are most important. If culture were the variable between blacks and whites, maybe an argument could be made that it was the culprit for low graduation rates. It's not. Instead, consider this possibility:
1. It has been shown time and again that there is a very significant level of racial discrimination in employment, institutionalized racism by law enforcement and the courts,
2. Young black men are not so stupid that they don't understand this.
3. If you can't get a job that will pay for rent and food, selling drugs or joining a gang(not the revered Mafia of white culture) might sound like a good idea.
You can agree or disagree with the choice, but unless you are the target of the remains of hundreds of years of racism, institutionalized and thrown at you EVERY DAY, it's hard to argue that you wouldn't do exactly the same thing.
Culture is a red herring in this discussion.
Hello, I am an expert on black people! Whenever mnspeak links to an article about test scores or crime, I like to share my insight! It is true that I am white, but I have watched BET Comic View numerous times! That, and sometimes I ride the bus with black people, when I accidentally take the wrong bus! I am the hugest expert on black people ever! Let me tell you all about black people and their problems! Because I have lots of new, interesting theories about black people that you want to hear!
I am humbled by your searing sarcasm, and retract everything I have ever said, because you have shown me the error in my ways.
To suggest that somehow black kids are more susceptible to these influences, to the degree that it has negatively impacted their abilility to learn in school, is patently absurd and, I suspect, cannot be defended by facts. .
But that is the point I am trying to get at.
It may be because of the institutionalized racism in our courts, employment realms, etc. and the economic disparity that many young black kids ARE more susceptible to falling into this sort of life. If the jobs and opportunities are not there, what is left?
So then the results of these inequalities may tend to 'create' a culture that gets perpetuated, even if it is a local culture, say parts of N.minneapolis.
So if there are many more odds stacked against inner city black kids than perhaps against a suburban white kid, they may be more at risk.
Do you underatand what I am trying to say?
I do, but I think it's just theory. I'd love the see you back it up.
I do, but I think it's just theory. I'd love the see you back it up.
It is just theory.
Sadly, there are not too many studies in this realm that I am aware of.
White people take tests like this, but black people take tests liike THIIIIIIIIIIIS!
"Tough guys don't do math, tough guys deep-fry chicken for a living."
-- Jaime Escalante
Math and science are the great equalizers in this world. We are doing no one (minority or majority) any favors by softening expectations or making excuses (or substituting legitimate education with phony feel-good "classes"). The plain fact is that we have forgotten that the role of our government schools is to teach. If we are interested in closing the so-called achievement gap we have to look at the real factor in failing schools and students and that is poverty.
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