39 Comments:
I note they left out "steal your coworkers sandwhich from the fridge." Although I'm going to assume the executives have their own refrigerators.
»» Submitted by »»» rew at 9:37 AM on August 17
Anyone who'd fight tooth and nail and even strike or threaten to strike for a crappy $14/hr job, has no dignity to lose imo. Whoever wrote the booklet had their target audience nailed.
»» Submitted by the mailman at 9:40 AM on August 17
Wow mailman, that's a harsh one. I was reading that article yesterday and was simply stupified...these NWA executives have no shame!
»» Submitted by Rod G at 9:44 AM on August 17
Perhaps, mailman, now those people who fought for and lost their $14/hr job can get a $5.15/hour job at Walmart.
»» Submitted by »»» TBartel at 10:04 AM on August 17
Why not have a booklet for the rest of the people in the world to tell them not to throw good stuff away....give it to the Goodwill, so people that want it can get it (and retain some dignity if it matters) and so we don't wastefully overfill our landfills.
Short of that, I say tell everyone to get over their dignity, and go ahead and take things out of the trash if they want them. Most of the people in the world would have no problem salvaging something good out of the trash, and many people survive based only on that. I don't care if you are a millionaire or unemployed, if you choose pride over getting something that you want/need for free, that's up to you, not your former employer. Suggesting people rethink their pride isn't insensistive...it's good advice for everyone.
That said, the smart PR move would be to have employees deliver their garbage to the CEO's driveway, and ask him to dig through it for good stuff. That way maybe he could afford to take a pay cut, so he can hire a couple people back.
»» Submitted by Eddie at 10:34 AM on August 17
My husband worked for NW for over 15 years. I worked for an affiliate. Every time we see news about them we thank God/Goddess/Allah/Universal-power-of-your-choice that we are no longer embroiled in this cesspool of corporate evil. Just when we think NW's leadership has sunk as low as they could go, they find a way to sink deeper. One day molten lava will begin to seep into the CEO's office - but he will not burn.
It would take weeks to type all the stories of waste and irresponsibility on the part of NW management that lead to the current nightmares - planes being sent to the dessert (expensive) then brought back (more expensive), scaffolding shipped from Atlanta (expensive) then scrapped (like throwing over $1 million in the trash) then, oops, we need scaffolding (expensive). Don't re-use those pallets - throw them and buy more later. It goes on and on.
Don't tell me about fuel prices, blah, blah, blah. Their demise was about indifference and greed. There were lots of ways to save money and lots of executives that got huge bonuses for doing nothing more than being good overseers with their metaphorical whip in hand. This latest pamphlet is just a more obvious examples of the true mindset of this company. They are probably lobbying, as I write this, to allow slavery in the airline industry for security reasons . Another reason to watch your children carefully while traveling.
Eddie - It's true, we could all be more resourceful and it would be good for the planet as a whole, but NW is hardly the preacher to be selling the message - like hookers talking about abstinence as a form of birth control. I like that last suggestion (garbage in the CEOs driveway) a lot.
»» Submitted by grounded at 10:52 AM on August 17
memo to NWA Public Affairs Dept.:
How could this have ever been a good idea?
»» Submitted by russ at 11:15 AM on August 17
So grounded made my point for me. Why would any self-respecting human want to work for such a miserable outfit? Rather than strike, they should have all thrown a party and invited the press and talked about how happy they were that such an evil entity was going down the tubes. If you can't find a better job waiting tables than the lousy one you had as a stewardess (excuse me, flight attendant) then you're not trying.
»» Submitted by the mailman at 11:15 AM on August 17
I don't know what's more insulting, the list of 101 ways to save money or the fact that no-one in upper management could take 15 minutes of their day to review a book that was going out to their soon to be out-sourced dedicated employees who have spent years of their life serving this company. Throughout our careers Northwest always said what a team we were. SAD SAD SAD! It would be a nice gesture for Northwest Airlines to extend pass privelages to ALL out-sourced employees. That would be a REAL money-saver.
»» Submitted by Jackie at 11:20 AM on August 17
It would be a nice gesture for Northwest Airlines to extend pass privelages to ALL out-sourced employees.
Oh, I get it now. You're all masochists.
»» Submitted by the mailman at 11:31 AM on August 17
I've never heard "Screw Your Dignity", though I do recall NWA's "F*ck tha Police". I would say that their demise began when Eazy-E died and Ice Cube starting making children's movies, and had nothing do with fuel prices or corporate greed.
»» Submitted by »»» g rote at 11:35 AM on August 17
As I understand it, a good number of NW employees who cling to those jobs need the medical & dental benefits (those were still good). Also, $14 per hour is (sadly) still decent money when you are 54 years old with no college and minimal skill sets because you've been doing the same job at NW for 24 years. These are not young, adaptable people. Those people were laid off long before anyone got around to going on strike. These remaining employees planned that they would get their pension and medical benefits at retirement time (just a few short years away). It may have been niave, but it wasn't to the generation they grew up in. Some of the flight attendents don't fall into that category, but their job skills are also not easily transfered into other fields and waitresses don't usually get good medical and dental plans.
I suspect that some of these employees also thought that public outcry might eventually work in their favor - when the flying experience became too intolerable and unsafe. Most people are pretty concerned that their planes be well maintained and professionally staffed. But these days we're really short on public outcry on a lot of fronts.
»» Submitted by grounded at 11:20 AM on August 17
This is so sadly naive. When people lose confidence in a company, they patronize a different company ... or drive instead of fly in the case of the airlines. I stopped flying NW years ago. My disatisfaction didn't become an "outcry," it became "no thanks. I'll take my business elsewhere."
»» Submitted by tate at 11:58 AM on August 17
As for Mailman's comment, I think he is very rude. They are out working, and being a contributing citizen of the community. You may be making more than them, but it gives you no right to act as though you are better, and they are some pieces of shit who don't deserve good pay. They have familes at home that need food, and bills payed. I don't know anyone personally who worked for NWA, but NWA has been being very rude to their employees obviously.
And like TBartel said, would you rather have them working at a minimum wage job somewhere, and then not be able to pay their house payments, and/or rent, and have to be homeless, and not be able to have a job, and be able to be part of the working community.
Atleast these people aren't sitting at home, abusing welfare, and using our tax dollars to support themselves..
With all due respect & sympathies to the people who are having their jobs outsourced, I can't wait for the day that NWA goes out of business.
Due to the unfortunate fact that much of my family still lives in Michigan, most of my flying is done between the NWA hubs of MSP and Detroit. Because of this hub-to-hub situation, no other airlines fly this trip directly, so NWA is the only direct option. So, not only do I get the shite service for which NWA is renowned, I get JACKED on the rate because there is no competition.
Essentially, there are 4 choices for my family of 4:
1) a 26 hour round-trip drive with the kids in the family roadster...ew.
2) $1400 flight where we end up spending 7 hours on a grounded plane or waiting in airports for what is, in reality, a 1 hour and 10 minute flight.
3) laying over in Chicago and taking our chances on missing the connecting flight.
4) $1100 round trip MSP-Flint tickets with a layover in Detroit. We would have to, carry on everything, and just ditch the connection when we get to Detroit...this is actually cheaper than flying direct as long as we don't get stopped on suspicion of terrorism, but it's completely illogicial pricing structure
»» Submitted by »»» g rote at 12:14 PM on August 17
When it rains it pours...
This morning a federal judge ruled he cannot block a strike by flight attendants. CHAOS could start August 25th.
Grounded was correct it was greed and indifference that put NWA (as well as the other airlines) where it is today. unfortunately, it is and was the greed of the unions and their indifference to anything but their own well wallets that is at the root of this. Yes, of course, mgmt has demonstrated its own disregard for responsibility but if look at some of the most significant industry issues today - automotive, airlines, steel, etc you will notice a consistent theme - a heightened sense of entitlement , greed and avarice by unions (think being paid NOT to work as is the case with auto workers). unions, in general, have failed to keep up with the global nature of economies and the realities of outsourcing.
I feel terrible for the individual workers and their families but have absolutely no sympathy for the unions that enabled their situation.
»» Submitted by flyboy at 1:35 PM on August 17
I remember a story in the pioneer press a while ago about a waitress who was losing her $8/hr job because the restaurant she worked for was going out of business. She had worked there for 18 years ... at $8 an hour ... and I'm supposed to feel sorry for her. People, look out for number one because no one's gonna care about you and your circumstances more than you are. Sorry if you're just learnin the facts of life, but that's it.
»» Submitted by the mailman at 2:10 PM on August 17
Ever wonder why fares haven't risen in years? I'm flying to Newark today and my ticket was only $240 round trip. Doesn't it seem like with inflation this should cost way more?
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 2:15 PM on August 17
flyboy - what!? The airline unions "negotiated" pay cuts, benefit cuts, and stock options whereby the employees "paid" more for the stock than the going market rate and were not allowed to sell it except through approved offices by NW itself (a limit on when you can sell it, a large penalty for early cash out, and the company trades it for you within a give period of time, not on the day you request the trade - meaning if you wanted to sell it Monday at XXXX amount, by the time the company processed the trade on Friday you might only get XX). In the end most people ended up with $0. How did THAT hurt the company's bottom line compared with millions of dollars in bonuses given to leadership that was steering the company down a hole?
I can't speak for the other industries. Each has it's own specific market issues.
Let's throw this piece in there too - travel agents once handled 80% of all the airline ticket sales and took 10% of the cost of each ticket. Now they get nothing. What did the airlines do with that money savings?
»» Submitted by grounded at 2:03 PM on August 17
It looks like in a government report that airfares from 1990 to 1998 dropped an average of 20%.
Is deregulation whats actually to blame for all the airlines troubles?
How can airlines continue to be profitable when airfares drop 20% and costs rise? Maybe people have talked about this but I don't seem to hear much about why airfares don't keep up with inflation and continue to drop? Can you pay your people more and more and charge less and less? Doesn't seem to be a sound business policy.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 2:28 PM on August 17
When the discount airlines entered the market, they could charge much lower fares because they didn't have the overhead (read union costs) of the majors. The major airlines had a choice ... lower fares to compete with the discounts or keep charging the high fares and fly empty planes.
»» Submitted by tate at 2:33 PM on August 17
Well then to me it looks like we are seeing the final chapter of deregulation playing out. The old school airlines can't afford to keep up the promises that they made to their employees because they no longer have a monopoly on airfare and fares have crashed. Welcome to the free market. So don't blame NWA. They are mostly doing the best they can to keep the doors open. And complaining about executive pay is a little ridiculous when the average CEO makes 1000's of times the average worker at most companies.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 2:43 PM on August 17
tate - actually cheap competing airlines and their lack of union costs are the not the primary influencer. Major carriers bump up the cost of flights to places with no competition like Flint, Michigan where in/out same day might run you $800.00 to make up the difference in their competiton with the cheaper carriers flights to Orlando.
What's more, if we recall Air Tran (one of those cheap carriers). It was not so cheap in the end. It cost many people their lives to find out that a $99 dollar ticket to Florida means short cuts in maintenence/safety equipement which equals dead family members.
As for ticket costs, no one's been able to adequately explain why the price isn't keeping up with inflation. Back in the early 90's many of the big carriers were nearly bankrupt and American Airlines had the mother of all sales (it's legendary to those who worked in travel). Every other carrier matched. There were theories about why the did this. One was they, being slightly fiscally stronger, hoped to survive this poisoned tea party they'd invited everyone to. (they'd get mighty sick, but the rest of the attendees would die). There might still be some of that attitude out there - I can survive the poison longer than my competition.
The other possible reason for the cheap ticket prices is that every time there's a sale it causes a flurry of revenue to come in quickly which is then pocketed by upper management as they roll out the door with it allowing the fiscal short fall to be the next guys problem.
»» Submitted by grounded at 2:43 PM on August 17
One more thing on cheap carriers - when you keep a fleet of identical planes (because you don't need little ones for Carlsbad and big one's for London) maintenance costs are lower. There are less parts to stock, less diversity in maintenance knowledge required etc. and frankly, many of the planes those cheap carriers use are junk. It's like traveling across country pulling a trailer with your college roomies 1984 Omni. Will you make it? Usually, but your odds would be better if you'd borrowed your dad's car.
»» Submitted by grounded at 3:06 PM on August 17
I seem to have done OK over the years with my "junky" planes at Southwest Airlines.
... and my customer loyalty numbers kick the shit out of your former employer's.
So piss off!!!
»» Submitted by Herb Kelleher at 3:55 PM on August 17
The other possible reason for the cheap ticket prices is that every time there's a sale it causes a flurry of revenue to come in quickly which is then pocketed by upper management as they roll out the door with it allowing the fiscal short fall to be the next guys problem.
This doesn't inherently make sense. When they have fare sales I'm guessing the price of the ticket is barely covering the gross cost of the fare. So where is the big flurry of revenue.
I'm guessing they do fare sales to fill the flights that they are obligated to fly to keep the people that have reserved tickets far in advance happy.
It might be that I don't have an ax to grind so I can look at things with a less prejudiced eye.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 4:10 PM on August 17
That being said I hope they didn't pay much for that list. It looks like it was put together in the mid 90's. What's with the long distance tip. Who is paying for long distance at all anymore?
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 4:19 PM on August 17
Herb - I should have been more specific about cheap carriers. I consider Southwest to be a separate entity from the Air Tran crowd. Southwest has a newer fleet of planes (consistant make/models) that are well maintained. They have well treated, well compensated employees (union)and a flight system that doesn't rely on hub-spoke routing. They are successful for a muriad of reasons and the majors should pay closer attention to them.
Mpls Simpleton - When airlines have a sale for tickets on future travel dates, they sell a promise of service and not an actual product/service. If you take the money from the promise and let someone else worry about providing the service...
»» Submitted by grounded at 4:44 PM on August 17
Well now that they have the green light, the unions can go ahead and put NWA out of it's misery and let their members embark on their new careers.
I hear the State fair is still hiring pronto pup chef's.
»» Submitted by swiftee at 7:46 PM on August 17
As for Mailman's comment, I think he is very rude. They are out working, and being a contributing citizen of the community. You may be making more than them, but it gives you no right to act as though you are better, and they are some pieces of shit who don't deserve good pay. They have familes at home that need food, and bills payed. I don't know anyone personally who worked for NWA, but NWA has been being very rude to their employees obviously.
Actually, many Northwest employees are on strike and many more soon could be. Many have also announced intentions to intentionally make travel miserable for NWA fliers. I think their situation sucks. But if you're still working at Northwest...c'mon, did you not see this coming?
Has this list of things to do been published anywhere? Some of us who actually appreciate financial tips might like to read it.
»» Submitted by »»» kwatt at 8:35 PM on August 17
kwatt, I recommend The Millionaire Next Door. If you want financial tips, this can't be beat, unless you're tapping Warren Buffet's phone.
»» Submitted by »»» TBartel at 9:43 PM on August 17
I find it ironic that the mailman talks about looking out for oneself in one post and yet he bashes the strikers in an earlier post for doing just that! I'm sorry mailman, maybe you are independently weatlhy but, there are people out there that NEED their 14 dollar an hour jobs. There is no shame in doing a job like that, and no loss of dignity in trying to hold onto it! Not to mention that the people who do those jobs are what make people who sit on their butts all day (and don't even have 15 minutes to read through the information they are sending their employees) rich. I am business person too and of course I understand that sometimes companies have to make cutbacks to stay in business but, I see no excuse for treating employees in such a way especially when you have just told them they have been let go!
»» Submitted by Mea at 3:56 PM on August 24
Company loyalty has always been a one way street. It always will be a one way street. A company cannot keep employees on the payroll when there is a finiancial problem with the Company. I do not side with NW, nor do I side with the employees. The fact is NW will lay off more people if they need to. I would offer to the Employees that they do not owe NW anything but a days work for a days pay. Why not start looking for another job in a less volitile area?
»» Submitted by Bird dog at 10:42 AM on August 28
My definition of loyalty to my employers has changed over the years. In the "new economy:, it now covers "where is my next paycheck coming from", and beyond that it's every man for himself. Like rats on a sinking ship, I say.
»» Submitted by grote at 11:07 AM on August 28
Northwest employees made a choice. I congratulate them for sending the message as a group, that they would rather work elsewhere than to continue to work under the pay and conditions that they consider substandard. However, once that decision is made it is incomprehensible to continue to criticize the company or any others that choose to work there. If Northwest was wrong in their thinking, the company will pay the price by either going under, or having to increase the pay and benefits to retain the replacement workers. Either way, the labor market will determine who was right.
»» Submitted by Shoe Fly at 7:43 PM on October 8
Since when does anyone owe anyone else a "living wage?" If you don't want to make 6 bucks an hour, then get off your arse and go get an education. These people who demand a "living wage" are the same idiots who sat in the back of the class, throwing spitballs and making fun of the teacher, getting high instead of studying, and generally acting like jerks. Those of us who studied are now "management" and have earned the right to a living wage by our hard work in the classroom. Get up off the couch and go take a class. Do something with your life. This entitlement attitude is exactly why the US is losing jobs to every imagineable overseas source... because somehow Americans think they need a big screen TV and a Cadillac Escalade in the driveway of their suburban 4-bedroom home... all because they graduated high school and simply live in America. Nobody has the God-given right to be rich. Nobody has the right to be free from poverty. If you want to make money, then get a skill that employers actually want. I can find 100 people today that can perform the jobs at the low end of my company's pay scale, but I can't for the life of me find in intelligent, drug-free engineer or technical person with no criminal record. So I'm willing to pay more money for an engineer than I am for a broom-pusher.
»» Submitted by No way at 10:39 AM on November 1
I love it when people just randomly decide to be an asshole about other people's livelihood.
You know, my friends, you'd be pretty fucked without the broom pushers of this world. Sure, they shouldn't make as much as an electrical engineer, but they should be able to make a living. They work pretty goddamn hard, you know.
Actually, No Way makes a great point vis-a-vis the recent airline labor battles, and he doesn't even know it.
You'd pay more for a broom pusher than an enigneer. Agreed.
Let's follow that logic to an airline pilot or mechanic. What's unique about those jobs is the very low tolerance for error. That's why there are 2 pilots and I assume a couple mechanics checking each others work. These guys can't screw up.
So what happens when a corp decides thay can get the same guy for less? Maybe they can, maybe they can't? Either way it's your ass in the seat, not the ceo's.
Personally, I'd have real questions about flying an airline that says, "we can get by with a lower quality employee."
Remember, you'd pay more for better skills, so if you pay less you should expect to get less, right?
Happy flying on nwa & mesaba!
»» Submitted by russ at 11:24 AM on November 1
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