132 Comments:
Fuck you, drivers.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 1:19 PM on April 4
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 1:25 PM on April 4
He's also lucky the driver didn't stop to finish him off. Raging drivers have sometimes felt insulted by bicycle "obstacles". I'm not kidding. Bikes are traffic. Share the road.
»» Submitted by Omnilove at 1:26 PM on April 4
I feel compelled to point out that if the rider was heading east or west he was a mere half mile from a dedicated bike trail. Just sayin'.
»» Submitted by »»» kwatt at 1:30 PM on April 4
kwatt - he was getting off the bike trail and cutting down to Lake St. to go home.
»» Submitted by Andrew at 1:32 PM on April 4
yet another reason why they need to finish the fucking greenway already.
or maybe have more frequent and more difficult testing for a driver's license. also to make vehicular manslaughter equivalent to 3rd degree murder, maybe. There's no reason why a hit&run shouldn't be prosecuted as attempted murder, though. If you hit someone and don't take responsibility, you're essentially admitting that you tried to kill them.
ftw
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 1:38 PM on April 4
I feel compelled...
to be a jerk even though you don't know the facts!
»» Submitted by --- at 1:44 PM on April 4
Anyone else disturbed that two people passed without helping him? Douchebags...
It's too bad, the whole thing is sad. What conclusions are to be drawn from it? It's not the first time people have been callous to someone else's misfortune.
The good thing is: the guy's gonna be OK.
Maybe MNSpeakers could come up with a little money and get him a new bike. I'll be in for a little. One less happy hour for some people. Is that gonna kill anyone?
»» Submitted by The Rat at 1:48 PM on April 4
I'm disturbed they ran over his bike. What did they thing was going on?
My guess: They all thought they hit him, and so they all fled the scene.
Anyone else disturbed that two people passed without helping him?
The time of the incident may offer a clue. My dad was a cop in Indianapolis. He always used to say that after closing time, the only people on the road were drunks and the cops trying to catch them.
»» Submitted by »»» alamn at 1:52 PM on April 4
People, PLEASE GIVE BIKERS A BREAK.
I am fairly disappointed in how many drivers are annoyed and frustrated with people biking on the street. This is quite poor driving behavior.
I bike a lot and would like to ask all of you drivers to be a little extra careful.
Don't be mad at bikers, they are doing you a favor. Another person on a bike is surely decreasing traffic and better for all of ours environment.
Give bikers their right of way on city streets, its Minnesota Law. Let's not hate each other and let our emotions lead us to dangerous situations!
As far as drivers license test in this state, I think it is a COMPLETE JOKE.
Seriously, you can take the permit test in multiple languages, wtf??? So many signs in the US are written in english and what about panels with emergency writing. These people will not be able to comprehend these quickly.
The Eagan road test is a joke as well. So easy, pretty much tests if you are capable of driving on a road with no cars, in perfect weather conditions, no cyclists, pedestrians. Pretty much totally away from driving reality. Pathetic. There might as well not be a test at all.
In the US driving is a necessity, so obtaining a license has been made extremely difficult. This is bad for everyone, drivers, bikers, pedestrians, etc....
In Europe, I recall my friends were complaining about the difficult driving test all the time. It was not unusual to fail the first time. The theory test was difficult as well. On the road test, the instructor would take you on the road and try to trick you into making a mistake.
This results in excellent European drivers, who are aware of their conditions and confident. As opposed to the terrible ones around here.
PLEASE don't be mean to bikers.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 1:46 PM on April 4
Good. One less biker I have to mow down myself.
»» Submitted by Yeah, I said it. at 1:55 PM on April 4
Good idea Rat. Maybe pass the hat at our next get together?
»» Submitted by »»» alamn at 1:55 PM on April 4
if anyone feels so inclined to donate some money towards chris's medical bills, you can send a check to:
Chris Zito Fund
TCF Routing # 001-01-J
801 Marquette Ave
Minneapolis, MN 55402-9984
Make checks out to "Chris Zito Fund".
thanks for your consideration.
»» Submitted by »»» imagreen at 1:55 PM on April 4
This results in excellent European drivers...
On behalf of all of us MNspeakers who have either lived or traveled in Europe:
LOL! LOL! LOL!
You are correct, however, in saying we should watch out for folks on bikes.
»» Submitted by »»» alamn at 1:57 PM on April 4
Maybe hippie buy car now. Ha
»» Submitted by K-K'Chuang at 1:55 PM on April 4
On behalf of all of us MNspeakers who have either lived or traveled in Europe:
alamn-
Uhh, I am from Europe originally. Have certainly lived there longer than you, and most likely traveled around Europe more than you as well....
Drivers in Europe may seem worse because they are more aggressive, but they are actually much more in control and aware than people around here.
Ask a MN driver to drive in Rome or Moscow, Istanbul, I would like to see how that goes. Driving around here on the other hand requires pretty much no skill or ability.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 2:01 PM on April 4
That intersection has to be one of the worst in MPLS.
The wcco story doesn't say if he was wearing a helmet or not. Seems like with a tumble like that he'd almost have to be in order to not get a concussion.
My dad always told me my head is only worth as much protection as I put on it.
Thanks for posting the fund for the poor guy, imagreen. I'll help out.
Let's show him what Minnesotans are really like. We don't leave people laying in the road
»» Submitted by The Rat at 2:01 PM on April 4
in the time it took to read this post, 50 bicyclists blew thru stop signs in minneapolis. oh, wait, i forgot...traffic rules don't apply to holier than though bikers, only drivers. hmph.
»» Submitted by cubbie at 2:07 PM on April 4
Good. One less biker I have to mow down myself.
I hope you get crushed beneath a semi-truck and burned-alive while you scream for help with every bone in your body broken and passers-by laughing at you.
»» Submitted by yeah I said it too at 2:11 PM on April 4
please cubbie, the corner where I live 8 out of 10 car drivers roll through the stop signs. I want to put up a sign that says Actually Stop.
»» Submitted by --- at 2:14 PM on April 4
And that has exactly what to do with someone being mowed down by a hit-and-run driver, cubbie?
Nothing. You're just being a prick. From the sound of the story this guy had a bright reflecty vest and blinky lights and everything he should have, so he was probably one of the bikers who does follow the rules.
Fuck off.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:17 PM on April 4
and how many motorists where going well over the speed limit? driving drunk? talking on cell phones while driving? ignoring stop signs, "no turn on red" signs and passing school buses?
»» Submitted by »»» imagreen at 2:13 PM on April 4
use the path
»» Submitted by be safe at 2:20 PM on April 4
Last week I got hit on my bike by another guy on his bike. At least I only got scrapes and bruises. And I didn't get hit by a car while I was lying on the curb.
As a biker and a driver, I have to say I do not feel safe on roadways riding my bike with traffic, and I'm always annoyed when I'm in my car and stuck behind someone on a bike, and also I'm terrified of hitting them. I understand that the law says people on bicycles can be on the road - and I agree with the principle of transporting ones' self on a bike - however, I think in practice, it doesn't work as well as we'd all like it to. This is why the finished Greenway will be a very good thing.
(In the Netherlands once I saw a guy on his bike smoking and talking on his cell phone. Now that's multitasking!)
»» Submitted by »»» josie at 2:18 PM on April 4
I'm right there with ya Cubbie. I'm all green and leafy and shit, but let's be real about it. Most "cyclists" (AKA PEOPLE WHO RIDE BICYCLES) ride like assholes. I see it everywhere. If these "cyclists" (AKA PEOPLE WHO RIDE BICYCLES) want the respect of "automobilists" they need to start earning it. They can start by stopping for stop signs and lights, staying off sidewalks, using hand signals, using designated trails, NOT hogging the entire road like they think they're a damn CAR, and wearing less testicle-and-cameltoe-defining Lycra.
And FUCK whoever invented that retarded recumbant bike. They're usually the worst offenders; when one of them is actually visible, they look so stupid and go so slow they almost DESERVE the puddle splashing I'm thinking of giving them as I cruise by. They're at primo height for it, too.
I'd throw money at this "cyclist" (AKA PERSON WHO RIDES A BICYCLE) for a "cyclist" safety and etiquette class before I'd help him buy a new bike.
»» Submitted by Bx at 2:13 PM on April 4
This isn't working out like I thought it might.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 2:29 PM on April 4
I support cyclists and this situation sucks, but I must agree with some posters on one thing: the stop sign incident. This dude in the story sounds like he was doing things right, but I have witnessed countless bicyclists in Mpls who run stop signs and stop lights and who treat pedestrians with no respect.
In other words, cyclists and motorists in MN have one thing in common: They drive like fucking morons.
»» Submitted by »»» samesin at 2:28 PM on April 4
Bicyclists running red lights and stop signs is not so bad.
The good thing about a bike is that you have a small chance of actually doing any damage to other people on the street (well maybe pedestrians, but being hit by a bike is probably a lot less bad than being hit by a car/truck).
I bike daily and I run lights and stop signs often. However, I try to bike like I am invisible. I don't put myself in situations where cars have to slow down for me. If I am at a light and there are no cars coming, I'll run it. Is this risky, yes, buy only to myself.
I try to give cars a break whenever possible, I ride as left as possible, let aggressive drivers pass etc. Nevertheless, it is sometimes necessary to ride in the middle of the street due to potholes or other conditions.
Driving has really become ugly with all the drunk drivers, and road rage. Why this animosity people? Calm down. So a biker runs a red light? Is that such a big reason to hate a person? Relax, calm down, drive saner.
We need to promote tolerance not just breed more hate.
As for biking being impractical. Totally disagree. The more traffic the easier it is to bike, since cars are going so slow. I bike on Hennepin, Franklin, Downtown, basically everywhere. I take safety precautions, helmet, lights, thinking about how traffic works. Overall I feel safe and confident. This feelin is due to the fact that I have a lot of experience riding on the street.
Bike paths are great but they are limited and don't give you the freedom that the streets due.
To give drivers some CREDIT!
In the core of the city, I have had mostly positive experiences. Drivers are courteous, nice, and few problems are apparent.
I think the issues come when people who are not used to bikers are around. Probably suburban folk. I would not feel nearly as safe in the suburbs.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 2:30 PM on April 4
There's a difference between spandex bikers ("Cyclists") and biker-bikers (people who use it as their primary form of transportation).
But expecting bikers to follow exactly the same rules as cars is asinine. It's obviously not a ton-and-a-half motorized hunk of metal capable of speeds in excess of 100MPH, so it shouldn't be treated as such. That said, they have every right to be on the road and yes, they are allowed on sidewalks in residential areas. It's not terribly safe or smart, but they're allowed nonetheless.
And get off your high-horse and quit pretending like you never roll stops or make rights-on-reds or speed or anything like that. At least on a bike you're not going to kill or maim anyone if you bend a rule or two.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:35 PM on April 4
I have pretty much the same philosophy as vlado.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:41 PM on April 4
Wow, I can't believe that there are this many cocksuckers on mnspeak. This poor guy gets mowed down by a driver and you are on the drivers side? There are tons of cyclists that follow the rules and stop at stop signs. Others don't, just like cars there are good and bad drivers.
Look at the poor guys bike... http://www.goathork.com/2007/04/i-wonder-what-happens-when-you-run-over.html
watchout for peds and cyclists a-holes...
»» Submitted by cyclist at 2:37 PM on April 4
Yeah, this has gotten positively derailed. Both bikers and cars fuck up sometimes, but I don't think that changes the fact that bikers are doing everyone a favor and get little respect for it by drivers. They put themselves at much more risk, and a bit more caution by the operators of the 3000 lb death machines would be appreciated.
»» Submitted by »»» jeffk at 2:46 PM on April 4
This dude in the story sounds like he was doing things right, but I have witnessed countless bicyclists in Mpls who run stop signs and stop lights and who treat pedestrians with no respect.
And what do your impressions of the habits of bicyclists in general have to do with this specific case? He was hit from behind, mind you, not at an intersection crossing (like where you'd find a stop sign or red light to run).
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:46 PM on April 4
Riding a bike in downtown Minneapolis is hands down the best experience there is. It's so liberating and awesome to ramp curbs and coast past cars who are waiting at red lights.
It's also one of the few times I've come close to death. Cars and trucks block the bike paths and they don't even give a shit that you're riding there and might get killed.
Fuckers.
»» Submitted by Christine at 2:47 PM on April 4
Assholes NB on Hennepin Ave making left turns are the worst, because they either use the bike lane as their personal turn lane, or don't look for bikers coming up from behind them at all.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:50 PM on April 4
in the time it took to read this post, 50 bicyclists blew thru stop signs in minneapolis.
I also know a woman who deserved to get raped because other women dress like whores.
Wow, I can't believe that there are this many cocksuckers on mnspeak
Clearly a first time visitor
»» Submitted by grote at 2:48 PM on April 4
and I knew an arab country that deserved to get invaded and occupied because 9/11 was done by some other arabs from a different country.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:51 PM on April 4
Hey Wayne, you're right as rain when you say we drivers blow stop signs and fuck up just as much as bike riders. Plenty. But we do it with much more style - a phone in one hand and a Zantigo's Taco Burrito in the other hand, with dry clothes and cool tunes blasting to boot. These cyclist motherfuckers? The only thing they can multitask while running a stop sign is farting, for God's sake. Come on.
»» Submitted by Bx at 2:48 PM on April 4
would you still be making that kind of joke if the dude was dead?
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 2:52 PM on April 4
No, I'd be making a much funnier one.
»» Submitted by Bx at 2:53 PM on April 4
I've seen plenty of talented bike riders reading books while riding their bikes on Nicollet with the buses whizzing by.
They don't fucking kill people.
»» Submitted by Christine at 2:52 PM on April 4
Use the path or take a beating.
This town is full of lousy drivers.
»» Submitted by bud jr at 2:58 PM on April 4
That's just what I'm talking about, Christine. They can't multitask for shit!
»» Submitted by Bx at 2:59 PM on April 4
the paths don't go everywhere people need to go. In fact, they go relatively few places where people need to go, since most are intended for leisurely rides around lakes and along rivers.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 3:00 PM on April 4
wayne...my post was geared to all the sanctimonius fucks who post on here bitching about car drivers, like we're the root of all evil cuz we have a license. MEANWHILE, bikers get a free fuckin pass to break every rule of the road possible (and then brag about it here)...because why...you're saving the evironment? please. it's such a double-standard it's laughable.
»» Submitted by cubbie at 2:56 PM on April 4
I've seen plenty of talented bike riders reading books while riding their bikes on Nicollet with the buses whizzing by.
They don't fucking kill people.
ha! they could though...if i have to swerve out of the way of some selfish biker blowing thru a stop sign...then little johnny is running into the street...oh, but that's the big bad car's fault, right? self-absorbed pricks - every last one of ya.
»» Submitted by cubbie at 3:05 PM on April 4
Use the path or take a beating.
Fortunately, those are not my choices, but that is the attitude I'd expect from a suburbanite chained to a car.
»» Submitted by --- at 3:04 PM on April 4
Ok, cubbie, you're right. That was a stupid thing to say.
The only reason I get on a bike is to break the rules. That's why I don't trust myself to ride downtown anymore. You have to admit, it's awesome not to be chained to a car and to be free. Free I tell you!!!
: )
»» Submitted by Christine at 3:09 PM on April 4
What is the reasoning that it is okay for a biker to disobey the rules of the road? Everyone has to stop at a stop sign and at stop lights. I sit at red lights in my car and wait and wait and wait, EVEN IF NO ONE IS COMING, because the minute I choose to break that law is the minute that someone - on a bike or on a car! - is going to come through the green light that they have to legally use, because that is the kind of stupid luck that I have.
My problem with the "risky, but only for myself" argument is that it's not only risky for yourself...it never is! If a driver hits you on your bike while you're breaking a law, it's going to affect them as well, whether it's the trauma of hitting another human being with your car, damage to the vehicle, etc etc. To cross over into Pollyanna-land: those rules are there for a reason, for bikers AND drivers, so calm down and wait thirty seconds for the light to change. So you'll get to your destination five minutes later. Big deal. At least you got there in one piece.
»» Submitted by »»» josie at 3:08 PM on April 4
many drivers suck. it's dangerous enough to be out in that shit with a car around you.
an urban cyclist has to keep that in mind.
the point about cyclists flouting the rules of the road is also very valid. in my experience, 1 in 10 cyclists honors stop signs and signals their turns. I feel very unsafe i am driving near a cyclist. i often wonder what h will do next, is it safe to get next to him, and will he end up under my wheels?
here is my solution--
twayne, design some "Starting seeing Cyclist" stickers and we'll all put them on our cars.
»» Submitted by russ at 3:10 PM on April 4
It is worth noting that this Chris Zito does seem accident prone. Also, he was riding a Bianchi Pista, the real reason why he "deserved it". Of course I've ridden crappier bikes. I just don't like the Pista.
B) There are many breeds of (transport/rereat)ional bike riders out there. I have one bike and one set of clothes for commuting and running errands, and quite another for getting out on the road and seeing the countryside.
»» Submitted by »»» champs at 2:59 PM on April 4
Cubbie-
Man, sounds like you have some serious emotional issues. Why all the hate? Nobody's perfect.
I supporty the double-standard when it comes to bikes vs. cars. As mentioned above there is an undeniable difference. 20lbs bike going ~15mph vs 300lbs car going at least 30mph.
I challenge any of you to find an incident where someone has died due to being hit by a biker? Regardless of what the biker was doing (breaking traffic laws, drunk, etc). Driving on the other hand....
Regardless of who is right or wrong, it is easy to hate and build up anger. Much more wiser to promote tolerance and show tolerant behavior.
As for "get off the path". I refuse to believe that inner city streets are reserved for Cars only. What about bikes, beer-pub mobile, horse carriages, etc etc etc. Cars do not own streets.
The suburbs on the other hand, where many places don't even have sidewalks.......
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 3:14 PM on April 4
The reason its okay is because bikes can go places cars can't. Like sidewalks and alleys.
»» Submitted by Christine at 3:24 PM on April 4
Vlado...suck it.
»» Submitted by grote at 3:23 PM on April 4
Yes, except for that skintight lycra outfit you shoehorned your ass into.
»» Submitted by bud jr 2 at 3:14 PM on April 4
"Bicyclists running red lights and stop signs is not so bad."
Until I'm the bad-guy that hits them (or my favorite; when they plow into me) on my way home from work because they ignored a 2-Way stop on a 35 MPH street. Then I suppose it's bad.
"I challenge any of you to find an incident where someone has died due to being hit by a biker?" Does a biker plowing into a moving car or train or truck or streetcar or bus and killing themselves count, cuz I'm going to have to guess that has happened. I'm not surious enough to look it up mind you...
I ride my bike to work, i ride my bike to any appoitment/event not outside MPLS. If I run a stop sign and get hit and die, please have my headstone read: "I was asking for it." not "Someone should have realized I was an idiot before I plowed through that intersection."
I hope homeboy was following the rules and I wish him the best and a full recovery. Bikers that don't follow the rules pay the price and making excuses for people being dumbasses serves no one.
»» Submitted by David Foureyes at 3:25 PM on April 4
"Vlado...suck it."
MmmmmmMmmmmmm. Crow.
»» Submitted by David Foureyes at 3:36 PM on April 4
But expecting bikers to follow exactly the same rules as cars is asinine. It's obviously not a ton-and-a-half motorized hunk of metal capable of speeds in excess of 100MPH, so it shouldn't be treated as such.
But expecting bikers to use exactly the same roads as cars is asinine. They obviously offer far less protection and travel at far slower speeds than cars, so they shouldn't be treated as such.
Speaking for myself, bikers bother me because they are incredibly vulnerable and whenever I see one I instantly change all my attention to the biker. Is it far enough into the lane that I have to get over? Is there room? Is there a car behind me? In the next lane? Can I dare look away from the biker for two seconds to check my mirrors? What if the biker swerves out? This doulbes at night when it is even more distracting to see a single blinking light riding down the road. I don't want to hit bikers, not even Wayne. But given their distraction and how little protection they have, I end up wishing they were confined to certain streets, like not busy ones.
»» Submitted by »»» kwatt at 3:27 PM on April 4
"I don't want to hit bikers, not even Wayne."
Now there's a bumpersticker waiting to happen.
»» Submitted by grote at 3:44 PM on April 4
By the way, the Chris Zito fund is taking contributions
to help pay Chris' medical bills, and help with other bills,
since he will not be able to work his job for months.
He is not worried about getting a new bicycle, since he
won't be able to ride one for quite a while.
Thanks to those who are concerned!
»» Submitted by GuS at 3:39 PM on April 4
Kwatt - dim bulb
»» Submitted by starr at 3:50 PM on April 4
But expecting bikers to use exactly the same roads as cars is asinine. They obviously offer far less protection and travel at far slower speeds than cars, so they shouldn't be treated as such.
A-men. And if you're going to use the same roads, you absolutely have to follow the same rules. No driver is perfect and no bicyclist is perfect, but we should all stop at stop signs.
»» Submitted by »»» josie at 3:51 PM on April 4
Hey Vlado,
I think Cubbie is just jealous because bikers get the mazne putke.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 3:57 PM on April 4
I will say that bikers around the lakes seem pretty rude toward peds. That said, this guy didn't deserve to get nearly killed.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 3:58 PM on April 4
I will say that bikers around the lakes seem pretty rude toward peds.
There are separate paths for bikers and pedestrians around Calhoun and Harriet.
»» Submitted by --- at 4:01 PM on April 4
"Is it far enough into the lane that I have to get over? Is there room?"
Regardless of where in the lane the bike is, you have to give them 3 feet of clearance. If you can't give the rider 3 feet, you stay behind until you can. I will often "take the lane" when I am on a road that has narrower lanes, that way the driver has to change lanes to pass. Much safer than risking some driver try to squeeze past me, running me into the curb or off the road.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 4:05 PM on April 4
Of course there are separate paths --- , but I am referring to those on who switch between paths and the streets.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 4:12 PM on April 4
The best way to help is to donate to the TCF fund.
However, if you are interested there will be a bicycle scavenger race in early May with all proceeds going to Zito's medical bills. Come out and have fun on a bicycle.
Check the info by clicking on my name.
»» Submitted by »»» Sveden at 4:29 PM on April 4
I read in Slate once that one can see families riding bikes in their best attire to the opera/theatre. That's cool. I'd take that any day over the motorists who drive like they're in Daytona Beach. NASCAR is bad for America.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 4:37 PM on April 4
Oops... I meant one could see them in Amsterdam.
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 4:39 PM on April 4
People should lighten up here. I've been a bicycle commuter in Minneapolis for 30 years, and I would like to point out that drivers today and bicycle routes today are better than they were 30 years ago. Maybe the two go together.
»» Submitted by the liquid Lens at 4:26 PM on April 4
i drive, i ride a bike. cars vs. bikes is not the issue.
the issue is that a person, a human, someone's son, etc., was nearly killed for no reason.
it is easy to hide behind the anonymity afforded by the internet and make shocking jokes, but in truth, someone was hurt very badly for no reason.
maybe you don't like bikes. fine. you don't have to. i'm not crazy about football. this does not justify injury.
what happened was wrong, and many of the responses to it i've read here are just as cowardly as the incident itself.
»» Submitted by »»» highpant at 4:50 PM on April 4
I hate having to swerve around walkers and runners on the BIKE trails at the lakes. BIKE JOG know the diff.
»» Submitted by »»» kwatt at 4:55 PM on April 4
acalhoun: that wouldn't be me, I don't even see the point of trying to ride a bike around the lakes. There are basically two places where I ride under the posted speed limit of 10MPH: halfway up the hill (usually Cathedral) from downtown St. Paul, with a rack full of crap and my bike in low gear, and the first half of the intersection between after a stop sign/light.
»» Submitted by »»» champs at 4:32 PM on April 4
*and the pavement between the middle of an intersection and its stop sign/light
»» Submitted by »»» champs at 4:59 PM on April 4
I am so sick of idiot drivers. I honor traffic signals and other traffic laws, so just because some cyclists don't doesn't give anyone the right to paint all cyclists as assholes.
In fact, if I really wanted to be an a-hole, I could just ride my bike in the middle of the lane, at rushhour, slowly. Minnesota law give me that right.
169.222 OPERATION OF BICYCLE.
Subdivision 1. Traffic laws apply. Every person operating a bicycle shall have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle by this chapter, except in respect to those provisions in this chapter relating expressly to bicycles and in respect to those provisions of
this chapter which by their nature cannot reasonably be applied to bicycles.
While the law goes on to state riders should ride as close to the shoulder as practical - have you ever looked at most shoulders? Especially in the spring.
So it's not just share the road, it's get the hell out of my way as I have as much right to use the road as you.
»» Submitted by Saloth Sar at 5:12 PM on April 4
But expecting bikers to use exactly the same roads as cars is asinine. They obviously offer far less protection and travel at far slower speeds than cars, so they shouldn't be treated as such.
Those are called highways. Everyone gets to share the surface streets.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 5:23 PM on April 4
i take issue with way too many bicyclists running stop signs/stop lights when i'm driving to work. i drive to work mid-afternoon and drive through uptown part of the way on narrow one-ways and there isn't a stop sign every block and have had way too many close calls with people who aren't obeying the stop signs.
another problem i have is on my way to work when i cross an intersection in a very busy area in hopkins. the greenway path is right there and during the warmer months, i witness, daily, bicyclists crossing the streets on red lights or me having to stop in the middle of an intersection (which may cause accidents themselves) to avoid hitting someone riding by.
it's difficult to say that any or all bicyclists follow the laws.
it's too bad what has happened here and just hope that wasn't the case.
»» Submitted by »»» lowkeyd at 5:33 PM on April 4
again, let's try to keep this on topic.
it's unfortunate that the lead-off comment was "fuck you, drivers" but the issue at hand is the chris zito hit-and-run, not traffic laws and cars vs. bikes.
i'll keep restating this as often as i need to and would ask others to do the same.
»» Submitted by »»» highpant at 5:53 PM on April 4
I think it's hilarious when holier-than-thou bikers -- i.e., 99 percent of them -- like to bitch about stupid drivers, but then defend their own right to _not_ have to follow any rules of the road.
How about we make cyclists take driving tests and get licences before they can use the roads (which, remember, were made for cars in the first place)? Then everyone would be safer, right?
»» Submitted by just sayin' at 5:52 PM on April 4
how about we...
see above, please.
»» Submitted by »»» highpant at 5:55 PM on April 4
Yikes!
»» Submitted by »»» indyr at 5:57 PM on April 4
irrelevant. stay on topic, please.
»» Submitted by »»» highpant at 6:03 PM on April 4
No, it's not irrelevant. Who died and made you king of this thread, highpant?
»» Submitted by just sayin' at 6:05 PM on April 4
Hmmmm... think I'll donate, in honor of kwatt and cubbie.
Hit and runs are cowardly bullshit. If you're drunk, too fucking bad. Take the DUI you deserve, and call 911 to save someone's life. Better to have a DUI (hell, one in eight drivers in MN has one) than leave someone for dead. That's sick.
For once, I'm on topic and no one else is. :)
»» Submitted by yepnope at 6:06 PM on April 4
Here's the deal - I'm not on an ego trip, just think that Chris Zito's injuries warrant something more than people bickering on the internet about something that has only the faintest connection to what happened to him.
The San Francisco story is tragic, to be sure, and I hate Critical Mass, but that's not the point, it just isn't.
It is, however, a way to lazily assign any and all blame to cyclists everywhere instead of thinking critically about the issue at hand.
»» Submitted by »»» highpant at 6:15 PM on April 4
1 in 8 MN drivers have DUIs. Wow that is an insane statistic. Imagine all the DUI that happen which are not caught. Crazy....
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 6:21 PM on April 4
Um, I don't think that cars were around when many streets in MPLS were first built. So bikes were probably sharing the roads with horses and carriages. I don't think cars can claim eminent domain on the streets.
»» Submitted by androgynous traveler at 5:56 PM on April 4
yes, all and all, this is a pretty frightful thing.
bastard (the driver) was probably drunk and knew he was in big trouble. the story just seems a little off for some reason. this chris zito person seemed to know the routine well and the cautions to take for early morning bicycle riding.
people ride their bikes on hiawatha? there are so many places i would never want to ride my bike (i.e. hennepin, lyndale, or lake. side streets seem a bit safer) down much less walk.
»» Submitted by »»» lowkeyd at 6:16 PM on April 4
Better to have a DUI (hell, one in eight drivers in MN has one)
Got proof of that?
»» Submitted by oh really? at 6:39 PM on April 4
Suppose that Chris Zito were on a Motorcycle instead. I think looking at it that way shifts the focus from this being about bikes v. cars and to the reactions of those who just left him there.
That said, I don't know why he's expecting rational behavior from a (probably) drunk driver. Also, even though stopping would have been the right thing to do, honestly, how many people, already committing wrong-doing, would opt to save the life of someone else over their own ass?
On the issue of pedestrians v bikes. I've definitely been walking across the street when I've had the right of way and almost gotten run over by a jackass bicyclist who then looks at me like I did something wrong. This has happened several times.
I'm definitely one of those people who gets annoyed when I'm stuck behind a cyclist on the road but I just deal with it (sometimes they are even nice enough to move over so I can pass).
That said, I think the blame game between pedestrians/cyclists/drivers is better served by a looking at how people in general are becoming more inconsiderate.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 6:31 PM on April 4
highpant says "I hate Critical Mass"
and that's why it exists
to challenge the notion that
"cars vs. bikes is not the issue"
OK it's the people in the cars, but it is an issue, and if you actually ride a bike, then you should know that. Or if you are a parent, replace bike with pedestrian, and think about the kids.
»» Submitted by hedrick at 6:41 PM on April 4
Better to have a DUI (hell, one in eight drivers in MN has one)
Got proof of that?
As a matter of fact, I do!
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/ots/resource_catalog/newsletter/07WinterMPHnewsletter.pdf
Check the column on the right side.
»» Submitted by yepnope at 6:55 PM on April 4
That's amazing. I still can't believe it. I mean, I know a lot of people and there's one -- one -- my age who has a DUI.
Then again, maybe other people have them and aren't talking about it.
»» Submitted by wow at 6:57 PM on April 4
The "bike versus car" debate has been done, many, many times here. It's just annoying. There should be an "ad nauseum" category so I know what posts to ignore (also include: white belts, ...was better when, smoking bans, cool neighborhoods, st. paul vs. minneapolis, and probably more that I can't think of right now.
»» Submitted by Meow at 6:57 PM on April 4
don't get me wrong, i'm definitely not siding with the driver what-so-ever in this case by stating s/he was probably drunk and that's why they didn't stop. i am seriously against drunk driving to begin with.
a lot of us can't understand why the driver would have not stopped after hitting someone, but saying "2 other cars passed by" isn't saying much for 3 a.m. Where was the bike in accordance to Chris Zito? across 3 lanes? did these drivers just not see what was going on? I mean, i'll take his word for it, but not knowing how you got hit and what part of the car you crashed into and then knowing a couple cars passed by and witnessed it. i don't know.
»» Submitted by »»» lowkeyd at 6:49 PM on April 4
rephrase that
what part of the car crashed into you.
»» Submitted by »»» lowkeyd at 7:05 PM on April 4
I'm still wondering why two people who weren't involved in hitting this guy didn't just fucking stop and see if he was ok. That's even worse than the dillhole who hit him, in my opinion...
He did know how he got hit. He was hit from behind while he was biking down the shoulder of the road (and right there it's a really wide shoulder). He knew he flew up and cartwheeled over the top of the car that hit him, landed on the ground (and afterward learned that he had broken his back, among other things). He saw the 2 other cars go by because they each hit his bike as they passed (his bike got hit two more times and nobody stopped). Chris had to call 911 himself, and drag himself out of the road and wait until the police came.
»» Submitted by Andrew at 7:21 PM on April 4
lowkeyd, you dont know because you didn't actually read the article. You're just commenting on the comments.
»» Submitted by Andrew at 7:27 PM on April 4
It's a video, dude.
»» Submitted by did you "read" the article? at 7:48 PM on April 4
yes, i watched the video, and it wasn't as clear there and didn't say a lot of things you just said up there.
and no, i'm not did you "read" the article.
»» Submitted by »»» lowkeyd at 7:56 PM on April 4
ok, just watched it again if i missed something. not to be a dick, but the video is short and does leave out details and the reporter says he doesn't know if he flew up and cartwheeled over the top of the car or not and makes no mention of calling 911 himself and dragging himself out of the road.
i shouldn't feel like i should have to defend myself.
»» Submitted by »»» lowkeyd at 8:01 PM on April 4
For those who feel the need to point out that there was a path nearby - crossing Lake at Hiawatha, there isn't. I don't know exactly what route this guy was taking, but if you're trying to get on the green way or the light rail path from anywhere on the other side of Lake, you have to get on the street for at least a few blocks. And if he was heading toward the greenway, (I read he was near 28th?) taking Hiawatha was really the most logical way to do it considering the construction that blocks the other access.
But of course, that's beside the point since bikes are legitimate road users anyway.
I hope somehow the jerk who hit this cyclist gets caught.
»» Submitted by anon area bikerider at 8:15 PM on April 4
Is it my imagination or is there an inordinate amount of profanity on this thread? Must be the prepondersnce of potty-mouthed juvenile delinquents who haven't yet passed their driver's test whining about their bike riding exploits.
My question: do you prefer a bell or a horn on your bike?
»» Submitted by maza at 9:01 PM on April 4
Same thing happened to my friend five days earlier. Dude got knocked from behind on a hit and run, then layed there on the pavement bleeding through a hole in his head until someone happened along and took notice. He woke up the next morning at HCMC and didn't remember a thing except unlocking his bike from the rack.
Didn't see that one on WCCO.
I have a bell on my Schwinn Cruiser.
Ding! Ding!
»» Submitted by Raindog66 at 2:14 AM on April 5
I'll start respecting bikes as traffic as soon as they respect traffic laws.
Living in Minneapolis for a few years, on the whole, I see that MOST "hardcore" cyclists are gigantic asshats on the road and probably deserve to get hit more often.
Not saying that the guy in this situation deserved it, but I can easily see cyclists using this to hate cars even more and as an excuse for more asshattery.
»» Submitted by caryc at 5:22 AM on April 5
Should have called or e-mailed us, tpitman. We get a huge number of stories from tips. A bike hit & run doesn't exactly stand out in a pile of police reports.
Should have bugged WCCO and the other media outlets
'til they decided to cover the story, tpitman. That's how
this story got aired.
I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.
And comforted that someone actually stopped to help.
»» Submitted by GuS at 9:35 AM on April 5
I guess I'll respond to the critical mass comment I started, against my better judgment.
Certainly there is an issue between bikes and cars, I'm not disputing that (I was disputing its relevance to the more serious issue at hand).
As a cyclist (and yes, hedrick, I actuallly ride a bike - ask around), I think that Critical Mass is divisive where, if this thread is any indication, dialogue is needed instead.
Certainly it's tempting at times to engage in what caryc calls "asshattery", especially after getting cut-off/nearly-hit/whatever, and Critical Mass allows one this opportunity - to get in a big mob and yell "we are traffic!" and feel as though you just effected change.
But that just pisses people off (not to mention many working poor who might be on their way to a late shift and end up late for work). Maybe Critical Mass was a good idea at one point, I don't know, but for now I think there are better forms of advocacy.
Oddly enough, this might be one.
Finally, drivers make me into an asshat when I'm driving sometimes, too. I don't believe we cyclists have a monopoly on that behavior.
Either way, riding your bike home from work with two lights and a reflective vest on an extremely wide shoulder hardly seems like bad behavior.
»» Submitted by »»» highpant at 10:08 AM on April 5
I'll start respecting bikes as traffic as soon as they respect traffic laws.
Wrong fucking attitude. Driving like a dick around bikers is only going to make them less likely to obey traffic laws, because they see that you aren't. You can't always wait for the other guy to make the first move, and constantly escalating a situation is not going to do any good. The more prickish drivers are to bikers, the more aggressive bikers get about things. Just calm the fuck down and we can all get where we're going, hopefully alive.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 10:20 AM on April 5
The more prickish drivers are to bikers, the more aggressive bikers get about things.
uh, this doesn't sound like a good strategy. Kinda like advocating bringing a knife to a gun fight. You're gonna lose that one.
»» Submitted by mazz at 10:29 AM on April 5
That's really only an issue if you're a Wop.
the point is that it shouldn't be a fight in the first place, dickweed
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 10:37 AM on April 5
What is dickweed, exactly? Is it a weed of some sort? Why is it used as an insult? Enquiring minds want to know.
»» Submitted by mazz at 10:47 AM on April 5
Riding is legal on the sidewalk in Minneapolis except in business districts and where posted [link]
Take the Minneapolis Cycling survey to give input on how to make biking safer and more convenient.
Volunteer for the Bike/Walk to Work Day and join your angry cyclist friends in cursing the drivers.
Don't get me wrong, anonymous bitching on the internet is AWESOME, but doing something about this problem is even awesomer.
»» Submitted by some guy at 11:56 AM on April 5
Maybe hippie buy car now. Ha
Maybe dumbass learn english now. Ha
»» Submitted by toddc at 1:07 PM on April 5
I think "Critical Mass" is the perfect icon for the bike riding collectivists.
»» Submitted by mazz at 1:18 PM on April 5
Riding is legal on the sidewalk in Minneapolis except in business districts and where posted
Except, riding on the sidewalk isn't going to get me to the curch in time.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 1:40 PM on April 5
You would think they'd have Bike/Walk to Work Day a little later in the year when the weather is more likely to be warm.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 1:53 PM on April 5
"The more prickish drivers are to bikers, the more aggressive bikers get about things.
uh, this doesn't sound like a good strategy. Kinda like advocating bringing a knife to a gun fight. You're gonna lose that one."
Did maz(z) just advocate for diplomacy over shooting someone in the face?
»» Submitted by David Foureyes at 2:24 PM on April 5
No, I was just giving my boy wayne a little advice. I don't want him to get hurt.
»» Submitted by mazz at 2:36 PM on April 5
A lot of people who bike daily for their transportation don't take part in critical mass, dickweed.
That's my new name for you.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 3:13 PM on April 5
C'mon Wayne...admit it...you love Hairy Bears.
Come to Papa!
»» Submitted by mazz at 3:16 PM on April 5
Oh. what's the most important is safety, Riding is legal on the sidewalk in Minneapolis except in business districts and where posted.
Enjoy lifestyle, for biker, you'd better pay more attention to satety. this topic often talked about at bikerkiss
We bless every biker and motorcycle enthusiasts have a safe riding.
Future organ donor says:
"I will often "take the lane" when I am on a road that has narrower lanes, that way the driver has to change lanes to pass."
»» Submitted by heh at 6:44 PM on April 6
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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