46 Comments:
Minnesotans' inability to merge properly and their lack of deference to right-of-way is a huge problem.
* Don't merge until it's time to merge.
* Don't wave people through. Talk about lulling approaching traffic into a false sense of security.
»» Submitted by »»» champs at 1:09 AM on May 16
I'll just go ahead and address all the major arguments, so I don't have to later today (in no particular order).
1. liberals (who don't want people to be able to carry guns so that people can be scared into being courteous).
2. conservatives (who believe courteous driving is only for the rich).
3. we need to alternative fuels because the higher price of gas makes people angry.
4. People are angry about something related to condominiums (which they are often driving to and from because they cannot walk places in our unwalkable city).
5. Racism (obvs!)
6. It's really the rude driving down by Block E that's bringing everyone else down.
7. People are rude because they are rushing to get to a bar where they can smoke before it closes (entirely too early - this never happens in [city bigger than MSP].
8. They hate the new City Pages Editor and are so mad about something he did that they can't focus on being nice.
9. Illegal immigrants who don't understand what it means to be a courteous driver.
10. Racism (again, obvs!)
11. A complete lack of understanding of the basic principals of economics.
12. Elitism
13. "People like [insert MNSpeaker]"
14. The 5.
15. Rybak
16. Timmy P.
17. People angry about the horrible journalism they just read in the Strib over breakfast before getting into their car (negligible since no one actually reads it over breakfast)
18. Public schools used to teach courteous driving but they don't any more. Send your kid to private school [leads directly to argument #2]
19. It is better to be a courteous driver near your home than it is to drive across town to be courteous. Yet, people would still rather drive to other states to be courteous [leads to argument #20]
20. There aren't any reasonably priced places to be a courteous driver anymore.
21.-infinity: any combination of 1-20.
22. [insert unrelated sexual innuendo]
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:16 AM on May 16
I've driven in many US cities and I'm still 100% convinced the worst drivers are HERE. My complaints are many, but the worst offenders simply don't seem to understand basic road etiquette (written and unwritten).
On the highway:
* The left lane is for passing and going fast. I've never seen the left lane so misused and abused anywhere like it is here. When someone is riding your ass it means KINDLY MOVE YOURS, and NOW! It does NOT mean "let's teach this prick a lesson," or "now is the time to set my cruise control at 60," or "dum, de, dum....can't forget to pick up some smokes. Duh, my balls itch!"
In the city:
* Remember Driver's Ed? Remember learning how to get OVER into the farthest lane on the right if you're turning right? Yeah, I figured you didn't. It shows. By the way, your car won't tip over if you take a turn at more than 10 MPH. Just FYI.
* This city has the highest per capita rate of "broken" turn signals ever.
* News flash! The river roads (Mississippi Blvd, E. River Road), are often AKA "The Busy Person's I-94 Alternative," which means the bozos who ACTUALLY DRIVE 25 MPH (or anywhere close to it) on that shit during rush hour deserve to be legally passed, flipped off, honked at, and otherwise fucked with mercilessly like proper drivers with destinations should know how to do. Yes we know we're breaking the law, and you can salivate and masturbate all you want when we get our ticket.
* Do your goddamn sightseeing on Summit Avenue on FOOT.
* Motorcycles and scooters, you are street legal vehicles. That means you follow the same laws and rules as cars, no matter how badass, cool or cute you think you look. Get that front tire off my bumper, PLEASE, before you're wearing it.
* Folks, let the bus cut in. You don't have to let anyone else in, but for the love of God cut the bus drivers and their payloads of people who make the world go around a break. There is little karma stronger than Bus Karma, so chill. It'll pay off.
Herewith ends my rant. Thank you.
»» Submitted by Bx at 1:15 AM on May 16
Well, take comfort in the fact that Minnesota could never be as ridiculous in terms of bad driving as people in Massachusetts. I thought the whole Masshole thing was an urban legend. Nope. They aren't just rude drivers, they are really bad drivers. I'm convinced that my car is not going to leave this state without being hit by someone (probably while parked) from MA.
Even the pedestrians are ridiculous in MA. Since it's automatic right of way when you step off the curb, pedestrian crossings seem to just be decorative. I'm certain that MA pedestrians probably try to stroll across 90 and give people dirty looks for honking their horn and/or not stopping.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:57 AM on May 16
When someone is riding your ass it means KINDLY MOVE YOURS, and NOW!
So the guy tailgating is not the discourteous one?
Man are you confused. Wtih attitudes like that no wonder we're slipping to the middle.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 8:09 AM on May 16
The Rat lived in Miami for a year and a half. Many drivers there no doubt revel in their number 1 ranking.
Their only pupose when the get in the highway is to "get ahead of you by any means necessary."
»» Submitted by The Rat at 8:16 AM on May 16
Rush hour freeway commuting is for suckers.
»» Submitted by grote at 8:58 AM on May 16
Bixby: that list was perfect. We should just close discussion on the topic.
Although you forgot to blame suburbanites. They should just stay off the roads, out of the city, and remain in their faux downtowns.
Bixby also could have mentioned anger over construction of the Twins Stadium
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:01 AM on May 16
I think you should be able to have a blind guy with a gun permit riding shotgun so you can move those left lane hoggers out of the way. If anyone gets hit, you can just say, "Hey, he didn't mean to shoot them. He's blind for cripe's sake. Have some compassion."
I don't think bad behavior is limited to the highways. I live and work in the same town and you wouldn't believe the douchebags I encounter...not to mention old people that can't drive faster than 15 mph on highway 7...
When someone is riding your ass it means KINDLY MOVE YOURS, and NOW!
So the guy tailgating is not the discourteous one?
NOPE. You nailed it, Rat. The one using the fast lane to chug along at the speed limit is the "discourteous" one. The tailgater is the one with a clue about the rules of the road, and someplace to be.
The fact that you had to ask represents the problem very nicely. Thanks for being Exhibit A, Rat!
»» Submitted by Bx at 9:34 AM on May 16
Folks, let the bus cut in. You don't have to let anyone else in, but for the love of God cut the bus drivers and their payloads of people who make the world go around a break. There is little karma stronger than Bus Karma, so chill. It'll pay off
I'm sympathetic to yielding to bus drivers, but lets face it, some of them need some retraining. I'm often unreasonably cut off by buses with no warning.
It's turn the blinker on, then pull out. Not, sometimes turn the blinker on after starting to pull out forcing me to slam on the brakes.
»» Submitted by jim at 9:42 AM on May 16
RE: Tailgating
Both are discourteous, but when the left lane is just as packed as every other lane in rush hour. The tailgater is the asshole.
»» Submitted by jim at 9:43 AM on May 16
Going slower than other traffic while in the left lane is the #1 worst thing and MN drivers do it often. When in that lane you should ALWAYS be going faster than traffic to your right.
Exiting from 394 onto Hennepin and going south on Hennepin? YOU HAVE YOUR OWN LANE. Slow down a bit, fine, but do not stop--KEEP GOING.
Anyone ever driven on the Autobahn? It is so so SO wonderful to revel in the speed, smoothness, and seeing people hop into the left lane, pass, then get right back into the right lane (granted, Hitler built it, the jerk--ruins it a little bit for me).
As for going fast on the River Road... I used to, but now keep slow (30 mph max) b/c it is so scenic, it is good practice in staying calm, and to respect those who live/play around there... but I admit I'd really prefer to fly down those roads!
»» Submitted by »»» jane at 9:34 AM on May 16
Thanks for being Exhibit A, Rat!
Likewise to you: Thanks for being Exhibit A. A as in Road Asshole.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:45 AM on May 16
I'm sympathetic to yielding to bus drivers, but lets face it, some of them need some retraining. I'm often unreasonably cut off by buses with no warning.
It's turn the blinker on, then pull out. Not, sometimes turn the blinker on after starting to pull out forcing me to slam on the brakes.
Ladies and gents, Exhibit B. This numb nuts needs the bus to put its blinker on for him to know it needs to pull into traffic. I guess the fact that it's a BUS, full of PEOPLE, and it's HUGE, and slowly turning into your lane ISN'T ENOUGH "warning." If you need to "slam" on your brakes anywhere near a bus, you were driving too fast anyway, deserve the resulting whiplash. Bus Karma. Don't forget.
Hey, I'm sure all the bus drivers who just read your post are all "WOW! Thanks, Jim, for that step-by-step refresher!"
»» Submitted by Bx at 9:43 AM on May 16
There's no need to be such a dick about Bx.
And yes, buses do need to put there blinker on, it's the law. Especially when buses will often just sit at a stop for minutes at a time. Your a fool if you don't think there are bad bus drivers, just like everyone else.
»» Submitted by jim at 9:52 AM on May 16
I actually thought your list was quite funny you prick.
»» Submitted by jim at 9:55 AM on May 16
Thanks, jag-off! Glad you liked it.
And yeah! No need to be such a dick about me. Give that some thought while you patiently wait for minutes at a time behind the bus to turn its widdle binker on for you.
»» Submitted by Bx at 10:00 AM on May 16
WOW! Thanks, Jim, for that step-by-step refresher!
And let's not forget that it's not just good karma to yield to a bus coming out of a bus stop or off the shoulder of a highway, it's the law. MN state law 169.20 subd 7 to be exact.
That said, jim is also correct. We train the drivers to make a safe re-entry into traffic. There's a fine line between aggressive and assertive. But there are plenty of bad bus drivers. I see them and I have to deal with them, too.
My mother gave me two pieces of advice when I first got my license: Stay away from buses and watch out for women drivers.
Oh, and I've also driven in several cities all over the country in the last few years. The drivers here are indeed terrible, but they're just as terrible everywhere I've been. Except maybe San Francisco.
»» Submitted by »»» cjc at 9:59 AM on May 16
Bx -
Take the 394W merge onto 94E. Merge early or go all the way until the last moment and then merge?
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 10:07 AM on May 16
I meant 394 eastbound.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 10:09 AM on May 16
I actually thought your list was quite funny you prick.
Um, Bixby made the list (me!)
Bx is a completely different person.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 10:11 AM on May 16
Whoops. Sorry 'bout that Bixby.
»» Submitted by jim at 10:14 AM on May 16
Bixby - I feel your pain.
My on-line name used to be Nate Mazaek. It just led to too much confusion.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 10:13 AM on May 16
Prick, jag-off, etc...gee, I wonder how we slipped down to #12 on this list...
I got one... Why doesn't everyone hang up the goddamn cell phone already and pay attention to your goddamn surroundings? Goddamnit!!! ;)
»» Submitted by »»» bedubbau at 10:22 AM on May 16
Always travel in your lane as long as possible before merging so as to maximize road space.
»» Submitted by »»» kwatt at 10:25 AM on May 16
I used to teach drivers' ed in the summers (classroom, not behind the wheel). After solidifying the notion that cars are gigantic killing machines, I then segued into the general concept that everyone on the road is someone's brother, sister, boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, pastor, neighbor, etc. Hence, letting someone merge or not tailgating, for example, is a gesture of civility toward an actual human who is trying to get home to said people.
So to Bx, I'm sorry that I taught such ridiculous ideas as speed limits and being polite. Perhaps you should do some guest lecturing about how traffic laws are only theoretical and relative concepts.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 10:23 AM on May 16
Laws are so inconvenient!!!
Several years ago, there were various construction projects going on, so I had a long route to work. For 10 straight weeks on every weekday, I saw at least one vehicle break a law. Many days it was 3 or 4. This does not count speeding. It does count going the wrong way on a one-way. Going straight in a left-only lane. Running stop signs and lights. Nah, Minnesotans are good drivers!
When another traffic thread started here, another person similar to Bx surfaced with a slew of belligerent comments. Maybe he lies in wait for a traffic thread to start. Maybe that's all he has to do.
After living in Miami and Atlanta, it's not hard to reach a conclusion that people just like to bitch about drivers in their home city.
I'll say that from my experience, drivers here are for the most part pretty good. But I don't have to commute. If you want to live in the 'burbs, deal with the traffic and quit complaining. You knew you had to drive. You weren't going to get transported around in little tubes like George Jetson did in the cartoons.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 11:04 AM on May 16
I had a soccer game out in Eagan on Monday night and it took me an hour to get there from downtown. I was sitting in traffic with all these people, thinking, "They can't possibly do this everyday, can they? All for a bigger yard and relative safety?"
When I got to the game, I was in a foul mood because like The Rat, I don't commute. I was saying to my teammates that what I had just experienced was horrible and relatively insane. In turns out that a few of them do live out there and what I had just experienced was par for the course.
I had to bite my tongue because I cannot grasp how that could possibly equate to an increased quality of life.
I know this isn't exactly about good/bad driving, but I know that if I had to do that commute everyday, I'd go completely out of my mind and start driving on the shoulder.
We need more trains.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:16 AM on May 16
Top Ten reasons why Minnesota is dysfunctional:
10. Too many idiots keep electing the same career politicians in charge.
9. We have a large bureaucratic government in this state.
8. We are hostile towards small business or any form of private enterprise, even though we don't admit it in public.
7. Lying and dishonestly is more often the norm here.
6. Too many of us worry about the small stuff.
5. We come across with a mentality of selective moral outrage: "....tax on the wealthy is evil, but the Twins Ballpark is fine with me!"
4. Incompetence in leadership is usually awarded here with lavish benefits, paid by the state taxpayer.
3. We teach our kids at home and at school that the ends don't justified the means.
2. Government monopolies are basically tolerated; competition in social-economics is often seen as a "bad thing."
1. People in this state don't know how to drive; state troopers don't know how to enforce the law by stopping wild drivers on the road.
»» Submitted by Big G at 11:18 AM on May 16
If we can't even be civil dicussing traffic on the internet superhighway, how are we expected to be civil when driving.
commute was one of many factors in our decision of what home to buy. It was factor #3b in making our decision behind 1) the house itself, 2) quality of schools 3a) quality of neighborhood. I know that this isn't realistic for everyone (i.e. 2 working parents with distant job locales) , but we even got a great backyard in the deal, and our sanity has been preserved. We could get more house for similar dough by moving 5-10 miles further out, but a bigger living room & an extra garage stall aren't worth the extra 2 hours that I would lose in traffic every week. My friends that live in Farmington and Lakeville love their big new houses on the weekend, but talk to them when they are stuck on 77 at 6:20 on a weeknight and it's a different story.
»» Submitted by grote at 12:04 PM on May 16
How does Big G's list pertain to the courtesy of drivers, save the last point? I'm slow today...
Silly aliecat! Can't you read? You must have lost Big G's train of thought. Allow me:
When idiots elect career politicians, it leads to large bureaucracy. Bitter about this unwieldy government, we turn against the small businesses, which we dishonestly lie about doing, but we do! Knowing that we're liars, we begin to sweat the small stuff, often exhibiting this trait in selective moral outrage. In reaction, overpaid and incompetent leaders create a state environment in which the ends don't justify the means, hence opening the door for government monopolies. Trickling downward, even our state patrol don't connect the dots between ends and means.
Sitting in our cars, contemplating this complete social and political morass, we get sucked into a maelstrom of rage and depression, start flicking people off, tailgating, and swerving, all in hopes of somehow convincing our fellow Minnesotans to stop being so against competition in social-economics.
I thought the list was utterly germane to the conversation.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 12:56 PM on May 16
3. We teach our kids at home and at school that the ends don't justified the means.
Is this supposed to be bad?
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 1:39 PM on May 16
Thanks nateek, I wondered why I get so angry on I-94. It's not the guy who just cut me off and slowed to 50 mph, it's the government's fault...whew!!!
3. We teach our kids at home and at school that the ends don't justified the means.
You scare me.
1. People in this state don't know how to drive; state troopers don't know how to enforce the law by stopping wild drivers on the road.
How so? I think they tend to pull over wild drivers.
I'll add #11:
People tend to bitch about the wrong things at the wrong times to the wrong people and, as a result, any useful suggestions they have are going to be ignored because no one wants to sort through the extraneous shit.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:57 PM on May 16
I'll just go ahead and address all the major arguments, so I don't have to later today (in no particular order).
That. Is awesome.
I almost want to print it off and put it up on my cube wall.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 3:11 PM on May 16
"Don't merge until it's time to merge."
This is less useful than I suspect you think it is.
»» Submitted by »»» bobby_b at 4:56 PM on May 16
Light rail is the answer for many areas of the twin cities. You just need to motivate our dum ass govenor and polititians to spend some money on something that can benefit thousands in the twin city area. You could raise the gas tax to pay for some of it !! like the idoit in St Paul would let the legislature do that. It might be helpful though if it went to more useful places than the busses do now.
»» Submitted by Sick of breathing exhaust at 6:56 PM on May 16
Bobby,
MN/DOT says so.
»» Submitted by »»» kwatt at 7:13 PM on May 16
Although you forgot to blame suburbanites. They should just stay off the roads, out of the city, and remain in their faux downtowns.
Here here, Jason!
But seriously, dipshitwads who use the parkways/river roads to commute and expect to get anywhere fast need to die and go back onto surface streets. There's a reason why the lanes are so narrow, you guys.
»» Submitted by »»» wayne at 10:22 AM on May 17
Always travel in your lane as long as possible before merging so as to maximize road space.
Which brings me to my biggest pet peeve of late: People who cross the double white line (which is accompanied by not one but two signs saying "do not cross double white line," just in case you don't know that you are not allowed to cross a double white line) to move from westbound I-94 to the Hennepin/Lyndale exit lane. People, there is plenty of time to get over to the exit lane! You don't have to move over the moment it appears, thus slowing down all the traffic behind you.
Regarding the issue of driving too slowly in the left lane:
Personally, I'm pretty conscientious about staying out of the left lane unless I'm passing. However, there are two factors that need to be taken into consideration
1) The Twin Cities seems to have an abnormally high number of exits on the left side of highways (e.g. eastbound I-94 to 280; southbound I-35W to eastbound 62). This means people often need to be in the left lane for reasons other than passing.
2) To the person riding my tail in the left lane: Just because I am not going fast enough for you doesn't mean I'm not going faster than the people I'm trying to pass in the right lane. I promise I will move over to the right once I pass them. In the mean time, chill out!
»» Submitted by »»» ldfs at 1:20 PM on May 17
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