32 Comments:
You haven't given anyone enough yet to be a good judge.
You shouldn't allowed to get vulgar and nasty at the state fair.
Getting lippy sounds like Getting smashed and abusive.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 8:46 PM on August 31
Here's (probably) why your friend got hauled and not the other guy:
The various booths (of all persuasions) have people working in them who can't just walk away from confrontation - 'cuz they're supposed to be watching and staffing the booth - while the fairgoers can simply amble on as they see fit.
So, the person who can leave a confrontation is automatically assigned more blame than the person who can't leave it. Plus, since the cops really don't want to mess with the substantive aspects of the speech, they look for form issues - and if one side is swearing at the other, they can tag them for DOC, probably.
»» Submitted by »»» bobby_b at 8:48 PM on August 31
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Fair a private enterprise? If so, there is no free speech there, as such.
»» Submitted by »»» mjm at 9:21 PM on August 31
Huh. Years ago they told me they couldn't do anything about he guy who had a booth selling anti-semetic literature. Free speech issue, they said.
That's odd.
»» Submitted by »»» mjm at 9:29 PM on August 31
I believe the fair is a public agency. It has its own police force, made up of licensed officers. They can arrest, and I believe they can refer charges.
The fair is a public place. Speech is protected there. You can stand next to the llamas and nicely and quietly and unthreateningly say all the naughty words you know, over and over.
But if you yell them at someone in a confrontative manner, you get into the long-recognized "fighting words" exception.
Here's the statute (as I happen to have Westlaw up right now):
609.72. Disorderly conduct
Subdivision 1. Crime. Whoever does any of the following in a public or private place, including on a school bus, knowing, or having reasonable grounds to know that it will, or will tend to, alarm, anger or disturb others or provoke an assault or breach of the peace, is guilty of disorderly conduct, which is a misdemeanor:
(1) Engages in brawling or fighting; or
(2) Disturbs an assembly or meeting, not unlawful in its character; or
(3) Engages in offensive, obscene, abusive, boisterous, or noisy conduct or in offensive, obscene, or abusive language tending reasonably to arouse alarm, anger, or resentment in others.
»» Submitted by »»» bobby_b at 9:57 PM on August 31
well i'm headed out to engage in a little disorderly conduct right now...
»» Submitted by cubbie at 10:12 PM on August 31
Some bike riders may need Westlaw. Critical Mass struck again tonight in downtown Minneapolis. 19 arrests. Days of flickr posting and youtubing ahead, I'm sure.
Pricks
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:34 PM on August 31
Somebody actually thinks the Fair is a private enterprise?!
No offense but -Jesus Fucking Christ you sheep are so fucking quick to just give up your civil liberties. It really sickens me.
Let's just assume Julie's friend was a drunken asshole and deserves to be beat up and detained by the Fair cops.?!?!?!
Good lord almighty, some of you would have made Good Fucking Germans.
No wonder things are going down the tubes!
"Let's just assume Julie's friend was a drunken asshole and deserves to be beat up and detained by the Fair cops.?!?!?!"
Okay. Now what?
(If he has the keen judgment to go to the Fair and engage a GOP staffer/"God Warrior" in a screaming, swearing gay marriage debate without noticing the State Fair cop behind him, "drunk" is the charitable choice, because you can't sober up from "stupid.")
»» Submitted by »»» bobby_b at 12:17 AM on August 31
Raindog, I know that arguing with you is like howling into the wind, but...
I never go to the fair, so I wasn't certain if the fair was a private entity or not. Bobby cleared that up for me, so if Julie's friend was in a reasonable discussion with the person at the booth and got arrested, then that's wrong. Of course, if he has "reasoned debate" like you, Raindog, dropping f-bombs into every other sentence, then I can believe he got detained for disorderly conduct.
I don't assume anything about Julie's friend, and I'm not willing to give away any of my freedoms. I'll be interested to hear an update whenever Julie is ready to give us one.
»» Submitted by »»» mjm at 7:31 AM on September 1
Re: critical mass
Jason, I saw your story last night. Fairly biased against CM. How about interviewing one of the cyclists to get the other side of the story. You don't have to portray the event, it is by no means an organized group like you make it seem, as inherently violent.
I go on these rides and it is mostly just riding our bikes on the streets, no big deal. Yes, some traffic gets blocked, but this is only once a month for like 2 hours.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 8:44 AM on September 1
Why do you do it? Give us your side here.
Not just talking points either.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 8:47 AM on September 1
I was detained once and prevented from going to the fair for being lippy ... and I got into trouble with the cops shortly thereafter for riding my bike in the street where I was being a hazard to traffic ... course, I was 9 at the time.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:49 AM on September 1
Why do you do it? Give us your side here.
When you feel utterly powerless and inadequate ... I mean all the grownups get to drive cars and everything, then sometimes when you band together with likeminded losers, er, thinkers, you don't feel so small and alone in the world. And if there's enough of you such that it actually creates a hazard, then people MUST pay attention to you ... they MUST dammit!! [runs way in tears]
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:57 AM on September 1
Now that you're a grownup, you can be lippy and still get tp go to the fair, huh, Maz?
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:14 AM on September 1
lol @ Maz. at least that 1st post.
»» Submitted by grote at 9:53 AM on September 1
As someone who likes to bike and wishes it were easier to do so around here, I have to say that Critical Mass can go to hell.
Making people angry and reinforcing the militant bike rider stereotype is not going to lead to change. Critical Mass actually gives support to the people who are opposed to making bicycling easier, and weakens public support for bikers.
»» Submitted by Rez at 10:11 AM on September 1
I like how they all wear those tour de France costumes.
»» Submitted by 108 at 10:15 AM on September 1
Vlado: we had a bit of an internal issue with the videotape of the interviews with the bicyclists. We weren't able to air the tape. I quoted one of the riders who was pepper sprayed in my web article.
And I get that CM doesn't want to be seen as an organized group: but I'm sorry, when 200 bicycles meet at one spot and drive in one place at one time the same time each month, that seems like an organized group to me. And CM people have been e-mailing me, ticked that I called them "anti-automobile." Again: they take over the streets once a month -- blocking traffic, running red lights, etc-- andpreach against how cars are bad and strain our resources. This sounds anti-automobile to me.
I think I was clear in saying police never had a problem with the group in the past, and actually agrees with the message of the group. They have a problem with one rider driving towards traffic, trying to provoke.
Typically: it's not a good idea for 100 people to surround 2 officers who are trying to make an arrest, and yell at the officers, swear at the officers, etc. On the raw video, you hear people chanting, "Let him go! Let him go!" and "What's the Charge? What's the charge?" and a lot of the F word.
Police say people were physically interfering with the arrest: trying to pull the cops off the biker. Is this true? I have no idea. But the video provided to us by a friend of a rider was pretty clear that the group was not exactly standing there letting police do their business.
»» Submitted by »»» jderusha at 10:15 AM on September 1
I think its pretty clear they're anti car. A quote from their website:
Critical Mass is a worldwide movement to promote the use of bicycles as a viable means of transportation. It has arisen in response to what many call the "car-culture:" an overdependence on the private automobile.
Thats a fairly loaded statement. Its not hyperbole to say theyre a green, somewhat socialist/communist leaning direct action movement.
»» Submitted by 108 at 10:28 AM on September 1
Critical Mass is a worldwide movement to promote the use of bicycles as a viable means of transportation. It has arisen in response to what many call the "car-culture:" an overdependence on the private automobile.
They should take their act over to China. People there are giving up their bikes in favor of cars by the millions (and driving up the cost of oil in the process, btw). But, I suppose they can't get comfortable with the idea of protesting against people who share their political ideology.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 10:42 AM on September 1
You use China to try and prove points more than any Maoist I've ever met, Maz.
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 10:53 AM on September 1
I think I was clear in saying police never had a problem with the group in the past, and actually agrees with the message of the group. They have a problem with one rider driving towards traffic, trying to provoke.
I saw that quote in the Strib version of this story. The night commander states that the police 'agrees with the groups message'.
Why on earth did she say that? Of what import is it in relation to the events? Why is it relevant? Just a really goofy, out of place statement.
»» Submitted by 108 at 10:56 AM on September 1
She got caught being honest. I once had a teacher tell me that teaching would be fun ... if it weren't for the students. I suppose being a cop would be fun if it weren't for all the people and their cars. Most cops are also in favor of gun control for the same reason.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 11:08 AM on September 1
I have started a thread specifically about the bike protest.
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 11:16 AM on September 1
And they vandalize the greenway. Nice bikers.
»» Submitted by kevin is ready for bed at 11:14 AM on September 1
I once had a teacher tell me that teaching would be fun ... if it weren't for the students.
I am guilty of often joking with co-workers that, "this job would be great if it weren't for the clients"
»» Submitted by grote at 3:28 PM on September 1
I used to work for this theatre company where we would create a play with professional actors and then add the children actors a week before opening night. The day before the children arrived, our director said: "and now the children come and crush our dreams."
»» Submitted by »»» she-she at 3:36 PM on September 1
Never been detained, but I was asked to leave the DFL booth for laughing too loudly.
»» Submitted by »»» alexis at 11:22 PM on September 1
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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