189 Comments:
Looks like this is still unconfirmed, but if it is the case, I hope Rake finds a god buyer. I agree with Brauer's assessment that the magazine "has a knack for finding -- and funding -- original voices that other outlets might pick up, but if his exit means one less place for them, we're all a bit poorer," and not just because I have worked with The Rake.
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 12:12 AM on February 20
Sad thing is, there was a brief period of time, during the last 18 months of Han Eisenbeis's tenure as editor, that The Rake was a Twin Cities must read, a genuinely interesting voice in a city desperately in need of one. But no surprise to anyone, just as Hans - and the magazine - were starting to enjoy well-deserved accolades, Tom's insecurities got the better of him and he fired the editor responsible for making the magazine what it was. Since then, under Tom's heavy-handed editorial "guidance," it's been a bland, utterly predictable parade of platitudes. Tom's a publisher, not an editor, and the magazine stinks because he thinks he can do both. What a pathetic, sad, mess.
»» Submitted by Jonestown at 1:01 AM on February 21
Jonestown - Wonder what's wrong with the Rake? Take a look at Bartel's recent "Americans are dumb, but I'm smart" column in the March issue. The guy doesn't need a magazine - he needs a warm bowl of soup, a pat on the head, and a therapist.
»» Submitted by Jen218 at 1:09 AM on February 21
His piece on United Healthcare being sued by the Attorney General of New York is an example of "Americans are dumb, but I'm smart?"
That's a very odd read on the column.
Conflict of interest....
»» Submitted by »»» acalhoun at 8:01 AM on February 21
Throw in mnspeak.com, and I'll think about it, but that would def. reduce the asking price.
You know who really wants to buy The Rake? Me!
If the mag scene in Minnie weren't so damn crowded... and if they threw my baby in with the deal....
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 8:13 AM on February 21
Tell Tom I'll call him after I balance my checkbook.
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 8:14 AM on February 21
I'd go in half with you, Rex.
I'll chip in, but only if moto is renamed Secrets of the Smokefree City and Corn Guy gets his own column.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 8:23 AM on February 21
What ever happened to Hans, anyway?
»» Submitted by foof at 8:34 AM on February 21
that posting says nothing of the web properties.
Is this for the assets "physical" rag only.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 8:41 AM on February 21
I'd buy it, but then half those people would lose their jobs.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:52 AM on February 21
I'd buy it, but then half those people would lose their jobs.
Submitted by »»» mazasapa
Then a year later, all of them would and you'd be out a half mil.
»» Submitted by »»» s4xton at 8:55 AM on February 21
Prob-lee.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:57 AM on February 21
if it included the newly redesigned site and this here joint plus the physical assets...might be more attractive.
realistically, how many citypages can a person read while doing the laundry?
I assume that the rake doesn't actually own/run a printing press but subs it out?
»» Submitted by ryanol at 8:59 AM on February 21
Who would want this place? Oh! You people posting from the future must know something...
Hans and his sister were last seen toiling for Ticketmaster...
»» Submitted by bud jr at 9:10 AM on February 21
That's a very odd read on the column.
I think Jonestown is referring to this Bartel column.
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 9:17 AM on February 21
My most pressing concern: Dude weather.
Is he part of the package? Will he ever find a stable home?
DW must stay at least through July 19 for the love of gawd.
»» Submitted by »»» Cat at 9:18 AM on February 21
ryanol -
The listing clearly states "monthly magazine and associated website."
Aaron - thanks for the link.
Dude Weather has an open invitation to be the regular City Pages weatherman, should he ever become available.
»» Submitted by Kevin at 9:25 AM on February 21
my bad Dave....fact checking; thats why your the pro journalist and I'm the snarky commenter?
call me crazy for thinking that including such info as daily uniques would help facilitate a sale of a modern publishing entity.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 9:29 AM on February 21
R. -
Here's where I admit my ignorance. Outside of Alexa - and probably not even there - I don't know where to get a fair read on uniques. It isn't listed in the ad, on the Rake's pages, and of course Tom wasn't talking.
But you're right - it's meaningful info. Again, suggestions about freely available and legit traffic stat sites welcome.
Will a derusha ownership lead to less "slutty" fashion spreads?
»» Submitted by bud jr at 9:33 AM on February 21
I've found the perfect buyer, and I'm currently trying to broker a lunch appointment between Bartel and Par Ridder. What's 5% of $395,000???
»» Submitted by grote at 9:42 AM on February 21
David I am not taking any shots at your piece, just stating I think the listing should have those details.
I once worked in the circulation dept of a newspaper and have a hard time believing "circulation" numbers at a free mag; regardless of ABC audits.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 9:48 AM on February 21
I think the listing should have those details.
I'd imagine that a potential buyer would get those details when they talk to someone at Calhoun. Why would the seller include those stats in the listing?
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 9:53 AM on February 21
R. - no, I get that; sorry if it came off defensive. But your comment did make me wish there was a non-phony place to get those numbers so they can be included in stories.
After all, with the right traffic service, websites generate ABC numbers every day. Journalistic sites (including my own) should include them. As Mark Gisleson noted, MinnMon does include a stats link at the bottom of its home page.
miller -
Seems like if you include print circ in the listing, you'd include web stats too.
then again, as Bartel has noted in the past, the ad rev is mostly on the print side.
@miller
your right its probably intended to separate the wheat from the chaff
»» Submitted by ryanol at 10:00 AM on February 21
Bewwy intewestink.
Despite Tom Bartel, I do really like The Rake.
And hello, how many times have Tom and Matt tried to remind folks that Matt owns mnspeak. Of course mnspeak's future should not be implicated by that of The Rake... ... ... Heh. Heh heh.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 10:01 AM on February 21
RakeMag.com stats. (Compete.com is far from perfect, but it's probably the best publicly-available source.)
I seriously wish I could be two people at once right now. I know exactly what I'd do with The Rake if I owned it.
I want to come home!
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 10:06 AM on February 21
I've worked at quite a few papers that have occasionally put themselves on the market. The Reader in Omaha went through three owners in five years. Another local newsweekly I worked for was constantly putting out feelers to see if anyone was interested in buying (they never were at the asking price). Until we actually see how this plays out, its' really hard to speculate as to what it might mean, if anything.
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 10:07 AM on February 21
Another interesting graph.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 10:11 AM on February 21
good December, Mr. Fimoculous
»» Submitted by »»» spaceman at 10:12 AM on February 21
Yeah, that strangely coincided with the move to NYC. I suspect it's because I now get drunk with bloggers every night.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 10:19 AM on February 21
is that attributable to mention on / guest editing of / linking from Gawker?
»» Submitted by grote at 10:19 AM on February 21
Top Keywords Driving Traffic to:
" rakemag.com
ktlk
"quiet city" dian
" mnspeak.com
mnspeak.com
amy hockert
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 10:22 AM on February 21
Yeah, it's a bunch of little things like that. I guest-edited a few blogs, my Wired stuff drew some traffic, and, well, I started updating more.
And I flirt with interns a lot. They hit refresh more than anyone else in the creative underclass.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 10:23 AM on February 21
Don't settle for less than 6% grote...
»» Submitted by »»» Realtor! at 10:24 AM on February 21
ahhhh....so that's why you flirt with interns!
I'll have to use that excuse on my wife, "but honey, I'm just trying to direct more traffic to the site."
»» Submitted by grote at 10:30 AM on February 21
Pimps down, hos up.
I could waste an entire day on that site. which would prolly drive down traffic @ MNSpeak.
»» Submitted by grote at 10:34 AM on February 21
It still pisses me off that MinnPost makes it so damn hard to comment.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 10:37 AM on February 21
if it were easier, it might turn into MNSpeak...and we all know how erica feels about that site. you should be glad that they put up those walls.
»» Submitted by grote at 10:42 AM on February 21
And another interesting graph
»» Submitted by cantsignin!!! at 10:44 AM on February 21
I keep a salt shaker in my pocket for everything I read here and at MinnPost.
MinnPost heavily moderates their comments. Each one gets individually approved, so it'll never be the free-for-all this joint is (which has it pluses and minuses). I'm talking more about the actual workflow of posting a comment. Their registration and navigation blows.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 10:46 AM on February 21
your blood pressure must be sky high.
»» Submitted by grote at 10:48 AM on February 21
I've been looking for my lost shaker of salt. Some people say that there's a woman to blame.
And now I think that woman is Erica.
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 10:49 AM on February 21
whaa rex guest blogging gawker doesn't get you the secret handshake for comscore?
»» Submitted by ryanol at 10:50 AM on February 21
[Correction: I only fool around with temps now. C'mon, I'm a grown-up.]
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 10:52 AM on February 21
You want Comscore date? It's really not any more accurate than Compete. It's all one big racket.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 10:53 AM on February 21
no rex you don't have to whip it out....so to speak
»» Submitted by ryanol at 10:56 AM on February 21
I have NO downside to putting a voice to MY opinion... So here goes....
We are living in a world that is always changing thanks to the future of the
most potential lucrative demographic----15-30 year olds.
Is this the end of the era of where all of our future young leaders get their
information from the print media?-----I don't think so.
While my teenage children and many of their peers may rely on the Web
to source information---I have talked to plenty of people who still insist on
being informed by what is in print........A good book-A good magazine and
YES a good paper. The kind of paper that still leaks ink when it gets wet
and the kind of paper that is willing to give people from ALL walks of life
an opportunity to be heard.
I write for the RAKE and I have NEVER been told... despite a lot of flak from a lot of.....how shall I say this nicely....very vocal readers.....
to change my content and to give into the pressure of conforming to
what the majority says is NEWS.
I HAVE been told to NOT let anyone kill MY personal take on life
in order to be popular to a bigger group of readers and to potentially
make THE RAKE more money. So.. all of you skeptics and hopefully open-minded people---- since MN Speak and THE RAKE have
the guts to take chances....I am taking a chance by possibly not being
able to potentially give MY take on "Society" but doing what my instincts
have always done and that is to Voice what I believe NOW and deal with the consequences LATER.
um...you go girl?
»» Submitted by grote at 11:09 AM on February 21
Now, Max, you know it's nobody's fault.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 11:11 AM on February 21
That was fun.
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 11:14 AM on February 21
Don't worry Erica, inside I'm sure Max knows, it's his own damn fault.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:14 AM on February 21
Melinda, get back to your room. If I ever catch you writing run-on sentences with CAPS again, I'm taking away your boat.
»» Submitted by Irwin Jacobs at 11:16 AM on February 21
NO MY A YES ALL RAKE NEVER NEWS I HAVE NOT MY THE RAKE MN THE RAKE MY NOW LATER.
Melinda are you okay? blink twice if your okay?
I thought for sure it was code for Im buying the rake....dang
»» Submitted by ryanol at 11:18 AM on February 21
Irwin -
Don't forget the power...of...ellipse...!
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:18 AM on February 21
We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember, my friends... future events such as these will affect you in the future.
»» Submitted by Criswell at 11:19 AM on February 21
So, the Rake must still have a pretty hefty copy-editing staff.
»» Submitted by foof at 11:19 AM on February 21
perhaps we just witnessed a full looner ellipse?
»» Submitted by grote at 11:22 AM on February 21
So, the Rake must still have a pretty hefty copy-editing staff.
I've wondered the same thing.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:24 AM on February 21
Editing aside, I appreciate Melinda dropping by to share her two cents. It confirms some positive things folks have said about The Rake.
How many people here would secretly like a job at The Rake?
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 11:27 AM on February 21
perhaps we just witnessed a full looner ellipse?
Damn! That is SO fast and SO good!
I'll apologize on behalf of MNSpeak that we're going after Ms. Jacob's post with such voracity, but simply as a piece of written language, it really was stunning.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:28 AM on February 21
print is dead......
trees.
Save the trees, use plastic modems.
»» Submitted by »»» baker at 11:28 AM on February 21
16?
»» Submitted by grote at 11:28 AM on February 21
Yes I am fine just needed to vent....
I feel better. Time to go and do what I do best......
oops that ONE thing I do best will be kept under lock and key.
How many people here would secretly like a job at The Rake?
Probably most.
How many would rather their family have bajillions of dollars?
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:33 AM on February 21
How many people here would secretly like a job at The Rake?
Probably most.
How many would rather their family have bajillions of dollars?
How about all of the above?
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:36 AM on February 21
This is probably a question that's been asked and answered many times for many different publications, but...
All the revenue is in print, but so is the majority of the cost. What happens if the print goes away?
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 11:37 AM on February 21
I'll apologize on behalf of MNSpeak that we're going after Ms. Jacob's post with such voracity, but simply as a piece of written language, it really was stunning.
That and we're elitist pricks, Nate. /kidding...sort of...
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 11:38 AM on February 21
What happens if the print goes away?
I'm no business man, but I think blank pages would sell even worse than pages with print on them.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:41 AM on February 21
All the revenue is in print, but so is the majority of the cost. What happens if the print goes away?
There's not much revenue in online. So you end up with not much of anything.
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 11:42 AM on February 21
How about all of the above?
Exactly.
I don't think being a heiress and having a column "daddys little girl" is enduring to most people. Also, I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like Ms.Jacobs has trained as writer and more or less picked up the column for kicks. Kudos to her for doing something, but it seems like a vanity project when with her resources philanthropy may be a better profession.
Generally, flaunting wealth is frowned upon, yet somehow because it's The Rake it becomes a good thing?
We digress. The thread is about the sale of the Rake and unfortunately Melinda's obfuscated comment may speak volumes on the topic.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:44 AM on February 21
also, I would imagine that labor costs outweigh printing & distribution costs...and labor costs don't go away when you do away with print. so you're left with a slight reduction in costs and a huge reduction in revenue...doesn't work.
»» Submitted by grote at 11:45 AM on February 21
Erica I think you have to look at teh cost of producing the print as a loss leader for driving traffic on the web.
I would guess that's the reason behind the Zell purchase of Tribune. The value of apartments.com and cars.com owned by classified ventures of which I believe tribune is a major stakeholder.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 11:45 AM on February 21
Ms. Jacob's blog is currently called "I'm My Own Girl."
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 11:46 AM on February 21
@grote - I think that was a major hurdle for Minnpost.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:47 AM on February 21
Ms. Jacob's blog is currently called "I'm My Own Girl."
My mistake, the directory is "daddys-little-girl".
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:48 AM on February 21
having divulged both husband and teenage daughter i think she falls squarely in the Mrs. territory
that is of course if you don't subscribe to the
Ms. Jacobs if your nasty....school of thought.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 11:48 AM on February 21
There's not much revenue in online. So you end up with not much of anything.
Well, it seems to me you end up with a big blog, basically. And Gawker/Gothamist have proven that it's not necessarily the case that you end up with not much of anything. Rakemag.com gets more traffic than the smallest Gothamist network sites, so....
My point being it seems like it could be reimagined with the type of content they already have. Somebody's got to have some dough to invest in that kind of project, though. You don't get 16 dedicated writers for free.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 11:50 AM on February 21
There's not much revenue in online.
Errr.
(By volume, there's more advertising revenue online than there is in magazines and radio. Soon it'll surpass tv and newspapers too.)
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 11:51 AM on February 21
Ms. is a general title of respect.
1. a title of respect prefixed to a woman's name or position: unlike Miss or Mrs., it does not depend upon or indicate her marital status.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 11:51 AM on February 21
compete.com is crack, by the way.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 11:53 AM on February 21
@JACC
always using your grammar to bully around my humor aren't you?
;)
»» Submitted by ryanol at 11:54 AM on February 21
Your right JACC I am NOT (Trained as writer). I am trained in journalism
by one of the top pro's in the field.
If you want to take shots than take them at Lilyan Wilder her
former students speak for themselves.
Let's see Oprah, President Bush Sr, Maria Shriver, Peter Jennings,
and oh ME:) Now I really do need to go and rest up for my
long day of shopping and lunching.....
Kidding....I am off to hang up signs around downtown to save the
Whales in Lake Mtka.
Wow.
»» Submitted by »»» ranty at 12:02 PM on February 21
Nice name dropping now I'm super impressed and you've totally dispelled all criticism against you.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 12:03 PM on February 21
At this point I have to assume the commenter behind Melinda's name is fake. Otherwise I'm going to just throw myself down some stairs.
»» Submitted by »»» dezelske at 12:04 PM on February 21
You're right, JACC. I am NOT trained as writer. I am trained in journalism by one of the top pros in the field.
If you want to take shots, then take them at Lilyan Wilder. Her former students speak for themselves.
»» Submitted by Rake Copy Editor at 12:06 PM on February 21
"I am off to hang up signs around downtown to save the
Whales in Lake Mtka."
I don't see how helping fat white women lose weight in Minnetonka can be construed as philanthropy but hey give it your all.
whaa??? did I just say that? who is this guy???
»» Submitted by ryanol at 12:06 PM on February 21
You're right, JACC. I am NOT trained as a writer. I am trained in journalism by one of the top pros in the field.
If you want to take shots, then take them at Lilyan Wilder. Her former students speak for themselves.
»» Submitted by Rake Copy Editor at 12:06 PM on February 21
Rex...only a commitment-phobe would specifically pursue temporary co-workers.
»» Submitted by grote at 12:09 PM on February 21
@ryanol - You are extra naughty today.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 12:09 PM on February 21
Rex -
You know that I wasn't talking about Google. We're discussing local publications trying to generate revenue from online operations rather than print. Google is a whole different deal. No news operation is making as much money online as they used to make in print.
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 12:20 PM on February 21
great now I have to take a shower...All I can see in my head is Chris Farley playing with his nipples.....damn you JACC damn you.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 12:21 PM on February 21
A decent article on the subject - from the Rake!
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 12:21 PM on February 21
Ok, throw in Chuck Olsen and Rex's Vertigo poster, and you have a deal....
»» Submitted by »»» taulpaul at 12:26 PM on February 21
what's all the hooplah about?
I'm not getting it.
»» Submitted by »»» baker at 12:30 PM on February 21
Miller: I know. I was trying to make a point. And that point is: there really is revenue available online, if you know what you're doing. Too many traditional media people just throw up their hands and go "Oh, Google," without considering what parts of the idea of Google they could borrow. And they shrug when they see sites that are raking in online dollars. Just one example of a magazine doing this: NYmag.com is completely sold out on inventory. And from the tv side: my old site, msnbc.com is more lucrative than its cable alternative.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 12:35 PM on February 21
Oh, and fucking Gawker could burn a new $100 bill every second and they'd still be rich.
But okay, those aren't local examples. This gives me an idea for a post that I should write: LOCAL MEDIA OUTLETS MAKING BEAUCOUP $$$ ONLINE. They're out there. Really.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 12:40 PM on February 21
At this point I have to assume the commenter behind Melinda's name is fake. Otherwise I'm going to just throw myself down some stairs.
lulz!
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 12:41 PM on February 21
Oh, and fucking Gawker could burn a new $100 bill every second and they'd still be rich.
But okay, those aren't local examples.
Which begs the question: Could it even happen here? The reputation of the Twin Cities rests on what happens to The Rake, people!
Anybody know how much money Fresno Famous was making (if any) before it got bought? Hell, how much money was MNspeak making before it got bought? Feel free to speculate on how much it might be making now if Rex still owned it.
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 12:44 PM on February 21
Whoa...this is interesting....
»» Submitted by »»» taulpaul at 12:51 PM on February 21
Actually, it raises the question. (Pedantic)
»» Submitted by »»» msparber at 12:52 PM on February 21
I don't know if anyone remembers this, but the biz model for MNspeak was going to be something completely different than remnant banner inventory. I was building a local ad network. You might remember that How Was The Show, Chuckumentary, and some other sites were part of the network.
I hadn't spent any time developing it yet, but the idea would have been to use the power of a networked system to build volume and to create a sales force.
I don't wanna be hyperbolic, but of all the little pieces of MNspeak that I came up with, this was by far the most exciting for me. I don't think there's anything like it out there -- the closest comparable thing would be, well, to call it a "Local Google Ad Sense." But even more powerful than that. Too bad I never really got going on it.
So there's one idea!
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 12:52 PM on February 21
Actually, it raises the question.
Sorry. *toe scuff*
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 12:55 PM on February 21
Hell, how much money was MNspeak making before it got bought?
Probably nothing.
Feel free to speculate on how much it might be making now if Rex still owned it.
Probably more than The Rake, City Pages and Vita.mn.
»» Submitted by »»» s4xton at 12:56 PM on February 21
paul...neither one amounts to more than a drop in the bucket.
»» Submitted by grote at 12:58 PM on February 21
I don't wanna be hyperbolic, but of all the little pieces of MNspeak that I came up with, this was by far the most exciting for me. I don't think there's anything like it out there -- the closest comparable thing would be, well, to call it a "Local Google Ad Sense." But even more powerful than that. Too bad I never really got going on it.
So there's one idea!
Ed Kohler has been starting up Deets Media which basically does the same thing. That's what you see in my sidebar, his sidebar and the sidebar of Overheard in Minneapolis for a few examples. I just think he hasn't been able to put the energy into it that it needs to take off. I've actually got a tiny bit of cash (and a few coins) out of it so far.
»» Submitted by »»» s4xton at 12:59 PM on February 21
Banner blindness scares me....it's a growing epidemic.
Actually I'm happy...the CPM on rich media is over inflated.
»» Submitted by »»» taulpaul at 12:59 PM on February 21
MNspeak made about $1000/month when I left. But remember, it wasn't even a year old yet. And I hadn't even tried to sell one single ad yet.
»» Submitted by »»» rex at 1:04 PM on February 21
that marketingvox piece discusses at length how readers get annoyed by flashing banner ads, yet the same page features one of the more eye-catchingly annoying banner ads that I've seen in some time.
is this somebody's idea of web-ad humor? irony? disconnect between the ad staff and the writers?
»» Submitted by grote at 1:06 PM on February 21
Poetic justice?
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 1:07 PM on February 21
Perez pwns you all!
»» Submitted by Snarfing Clambake at 1:10 PM on February 21
Geoff,
Sure, if you look at traffic numbers as the only benchmark to buy media, then they're only a drop in the bucket. There's so many other factors that *should* go into buying, but that is another conversation.
Everyone, come to my party on Saturday night, and we can discuss this after at least a half dozen drinks. Details at TweetandMeet.com
Instead of wasting your entire day dancing around The Rake's corpse, why don't you all go do something constructive like figure out how you're going to bring in a paycheck for the rest of your careers in a collapsing industry?
»» Submitted by Idiots at 1:16 PM on February 21
Grote -
Good chart; it does show Citypages.com's heft, though I've noticed that most blog posts generate zero comments, a much higher percentage than during Steve's era. (This is a problem for us, too, but we have a much higher wall.)
One interesting thing is if you go to your chart and click on the "Engagement" tab and then "Average Stay - Monthly," it does show one of the potential achievements of MinnPost. (I'd like to think it's our content and not any design kludge.)
When you're referring to yourself in an anonymous comment, you'd be wiser to call yourself "idiot," rather than "idiots." The plural is confusing, although, I suppose, appropriately idiotic.
I don't think folks are "dancing around The Rake's corpse" if by that you mean rooting for its demise. I think it's been a pretty interesting discussion of how such a site (or any other one like it) can survive (and thrive) going forward. Print/web/both/whatever.
(That was Tommy B, wasn't it?)
»» Submitted by »»» ericam at 1:23 PM on February 21
david...I think those average stay figures are skewed for your publication. I took me like an hour just to register, and another 20 minutes to find Molly Preismeyer's artist-rendered portrait. Once folks get registered and figure out how to navigate the derned thing, those times will regulate.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:23 PM on February 21
(That was Tommy B, wasn't it?)
I sincerely doubt it.
no, that wasn't tom. I think his doctor told him to stay off of MNSpeak...plus he takes full responsibility when he writes dumb stuff. Also, he'd be unwise to call it a "collapsing industry" while trying to sell off a publication.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:26 PM on February 21
Grote -
An hour? Really? I know we're not slick, but wow. I dig where you're coming from on finding any individual author not on the posting list down the right.
That said, we've had the same design since we started Nov. 8, so I'd expect we'd have a lot more registration problems at the beginning. If nothing else, it shows we're gaining registered users!
David...it was an hour in dog years, I think. Actually, the registration link email is still in my inbox somewhere waiting for activation.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:35 PM on February 21
/bluesky rambling.
if I were developing a local web attention based business model it would be as a hybrid display advertising/ offline affiliate network.
become a member get a card, advertisers get a scanner. Advertisers pay predetermined portion of sale to site as a finders fee/advertising fee. Members get specials from advertisers and or a kickback from site ala co-op.
»» Submitted by ryanol at 1:48 PM on February 21
Update: it looks like the listing has been pulled at the broker's website.
I saved a screengrab for just such an occurrence, and the original story will be updated soon for anyone who missed the listing.
I'm not going to comment much on this because The Rake is a client, but the valuation? That seems oddly low. Isn't there a multiple on ad sales, which would have been $1.1M? Or there must be a 5x multiple on subscribers. Does anyone know anything about valuations for magazines?
»» Submitted by »»» aeklund at 1:54 PM on February 21
Well, we still don't know for sure that it was The Rake in the original listing.
Isn't the Rake just in Mlps./St. Paul mag clothing?
»» Submitted by tinnie at 2:01 PM on February 21
we still don't know for sure that the sun will rise tomorrow, either.
»» Submitted by grote at 2:03 PM on February 21
Max -
You're right, though I'm a lot more sure than the NYT is about John McCain. And that's the paper of record, isn't it?
Not since they published a review of my play. Standards have fallen there.
The New York Times
"What if it's True?!"
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 2:07 PM on February 21
All the news that fits, we print. And maybe some that isn't, if there is any room left over.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 2:10 PM on February 21
Didn't Joel Kramer offer north of 800 grand for the Rake last year, and was turned down? That was the rumor. David, lean over to your new boss and ask him, will you?
»» Submitted by allahboard at 2:25 PM on February 21
Allah -
I work from home, but I'll ask. Is the rumor based on anything from anyone with specific knowledge?
And anyway, Joel can probably get a deal now, since the asking price appears to have fallen dramatically!
Allah -
Talked to Joel and he says no 800K offer or any other K.
From David's piece: "... but it is, according to a non-MinnPost source with knowledge of the details but not authorization to talk."
I wonder who has knowledge of the details. Why identify the person as a "non-MinnPost" source? Does that mean the person hasn't been a MinnPost source before? Or does it mean that they don't work for MinnPost now? If the latter, why is it necessary to say unless they actually do?
Kramer leaked it.
»» Submitted by non-rake source at 3:12 PM on February 21
Non-rake source:
Wrong. The source wasn't Joel or anyone who works with, for or has an association with MinnPost. Period.
By the way, the reason I wrote "non-MinnPost source" is to make it clear it wasn't Joel. Guess that didn't work in at least this case.
Dead give-away.
»» Submitted by non-Rake source at 3:26 PM on February 21
Or the truth.
ryanol: There are already advertising programs like that out there.
Newspapers are not as expensive to print as you may think. The problem is that the margins they were used to getting shrunk to half (on a good day). When the advertisers started to go away, so did the big margins. Also, they got used to having big companies spending big money with them and they forgot about those med-small companies who weren't spending a lot, but were consistent. If one big advertiser cut their spending, it rocked everything. No foundation was built for which to withstand the roller coaster.
Online advertising certainly can't compete with those margins or volume, but if media companies focused their efforts on their online properties and viewing them as separate entities rather than trying to get them to make up for the losses on the tv, radio or print side, they might be better suited than they are today. It seemed as if a number of media companies offered their online properties as a "value-added" buy so when it came time to ask for real $$, no one wanted to pay for something they had been getting for next to nothing or free.
But, I could be wrong.
Oh, I think someone said that rich media is overpriced/overrated - only if it's not working.
»» Submitted by »»» Cat at 3:53 PM on February 21
Newspapers are not as expensive to print as you may think. The problem is that the margins they were used to getting shrunk to half
Cat has a good point. I don't think any of the local newspapers have lost money. It's just their profit margin isn't like in the fat olden days.
I also thought 300k seemed exceptionally low.
Generally, on the low end, a business sells for three times annual revenue.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:03 PM on February 21
David-
I don't reply to anonymous commenters in this forum for some of the same reasons MinnPost doesn't allow them. Granted, it's not been a problem thus far for you here. I'm just speaking with experience -- it can be a slippery slope.
»» Submitted by »»» s4xton at 4:09 PM on February 21
Thanks for the tip, Aaron - I was thinking hall of mirrors.
whatever, aaron. stop trying to cozy up to the MSM.
»» Submitted by anonymous poster at 4:13 PM on February 21
whatever, aaron. stop trying to cozy up to the MSM.
I hate to remember things, but I'm pretty sure a MnSpeak search would reveal some specific taunting of Minnpost and others by s4xton while singing the immortal praises of The Daily Mole.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:18 PM on February 21
Robin Marty chimes in with a subtle comparison to Minnesota Monitor and calling The Rake a "snark monthly." Zing.
»» Submitted by »»» s4xton at 4:19 PM on February 21
Nope, I was wrong. It was Mole vs CP and others
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:21 PM on February 21
On my end, there is no such thing as an anonymous poster, Aaron, David, and Geoff.
Ha!
Though, proxy servers and IP spoofing may argue that point.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:25 PM on February 21
I kid. I don't know who most of our anonymous posters are.
I figured you were talking about your omnipotence.
The all knowing and all seeing eye of Sailor Martin.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:27 PM on February 21
Sailor Martin? Hardly omniscient. You should have seen how he reacted to the moon last night.
I did. Maybe he was seeing into the future. The future of a certain magazine perhaps?
(Stoopid work blocks twitter)
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:31 PM on February 21
I hate to remember things, but I'm pretty sure a MnSpeak search would reveal some specific taunting of Minnpost and others by s4xton while singing the immortal praises of The Daily Mole.
Nope, I was wrong. It was Mole vs CP and others
JACC- Actually, it's true and I'm still rather critical about some of the ways MinnPost operates. I think there's a lot of ways they can grow a lot faster than the rate they are now.
I never said the Daily Mole was perfect or immortal either. I believed in Steve Perry's ideas and direction of the site though. Also, on another comparable site to this you may have also seen another MSM media guy that I apparently pissed off this week.
»» Submitted by »»» s4xton at 4:33 PM on February 21
I never said the Daily Mole was perfect or immortal either. I believed in Steve Perry's ideas and direction of the site though
I know. Just pulling your chain a little bit. You don't have to sell me. I think Steve Perry has industry vision and plenty of talent.
I missed all the early week net action so now I have to go find out who you tweaked.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 4:37 PM on February 21
Ooh-- who'd you piss off Aaron?
Does anyone find it funny that Brauer is willing to write a story with an anonymous source, but draws the line at responding to anonymous posters?
»» Submitted by anonymous at 5:21 PM on February 21
Does anyone find it funny that Brauer is willing to write a story with an anonymous source, but draws the line at responding to anonymous posters?
No. It's not like he doesn't know the identity of his source.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 5:23 PM on February 21
Well, I did engage, so kind of a fuzzy line.
Slowly ... sucked ... back ... in.
I speak for the anonymous, for they have no identity!
anonymous...are you daft? have you never watched a movie about the news business?
on the one hand, you have the anonymous news source. David clearly knows the anonymous source, and trusts their veracity...he's protecting their identity so that they will provide him with future information.
on the other hand, you have the anonymous MNSpeak commenter, who's just some dillhole flamethrower who probably lives in his mom's basement.
»» Submitted by grote at 5:27 PM on February 21
Just chiming in here to say this is a great thread. Feels like the old days around here.
Also:
1) I was a fan of Hans' work at the Rake, although it was sort of in retrospect (i.e., don't know what you've got till it's gone, that sort of thing). I also really dug his (sadly short-lived) blog for the Current.
2) I'm also quite enjoying David Brauer's local media coverage at MinnPost (and I wish he'd do more). I obviously read Lambert's stuff, but some of his habits (bashing his former employers, weird conspiracy theories) get a bit tiresome.
3) All these people who don't work in the media but like to spout off about how the media should be run make me laugh. As a lifelong newspaper guy, I've got the perfect solution for newspapers to make money on the Web. Just stop paying all those pesky reporters, editors, designers and photographers!
»» Submitted by »»» ross at 7:13 PM on February 21
Just stop paying all those pesky reporters, editors, designers and photographers!
And get volunteers among the Hobby Journalists (bloggers). Pay them enough to keep them in whiskey
»» Submitted by The Rat at 7:32 PM on February 21
And get volunteers among the Hobby Journalists (bloggers). Pay them enough to keep them in whiskey
And water down their whiskey.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 7:43 PM on February 21
Ross: Brauer's appointment reading at MinnPost right now. He's broken several really interesting things there.
Lots of print/tv-related websites look great on paper, but when you take away the print/tv reporters, you're left with not much. I wonder how much of MSNBC's success would evaporate if it didn't include stories from the journalists of NBC, for example.
Grote, you were searching for my artist-rendered portrait? Sweet! (I am the one who looks half-Vietnamese in picture form.) Wait..what were we talking about? Ahem....Oh, yes.
I, too, miss Hans. He's a fantastic writer and editor, and a totally unique voice in a town overflowing with curmudgeons. (And I am not just saying that because we started Pinch! together months ago, and it, too, proved fruitless...Wahhhh!) But I also have to give props to current Rake editor Julie Caniglia, who I think is doing fantastic work with a tiny staff and even smaller budget. I just wrote "props." Peace out, yo.
»» Submitted by »»» MollyP at 7:54 PM on February 21
I think it's been a pretty interesting discussion of how such a site (or any other one like it) can survive (and thrive) going forward. Print/web/both/whatever.
One word: advertising!
It seems as if there's a school of thought that if you build it, they will come. But, is anyone really putting resources into getting out there to get people to come? Other than relying on the existing brand, tv, print, radio, assuming that the audience will then migrate to the online property.
Two focuses seem to be missing from a number of online sites: finding, building, retaining audience -- repeat as necesssary. And then people who focus on selling the brand to advertisers. Advertisers won't necessarily seek you out, even if you have a staff of stellar writers.
»» Submitted by »»» Cat at 9:15 PM on February 21
this is the photo in question. Pretty sure there is a subliminal message in her bangs.
»» Submitted by grote at 9:48 PM on February 21
Monograms aren't just for bathrobes you know. Bang o' grams are all the rage. Either that, or it says "slis." Which is probably just an acronym for Shame Lives InSide. Man...that dude TOTALLY captured me!
»» Submitted by »»» MollyP at 10:34 PM on February 21
#176) I suppose it's safe to say: I also heard that Mr. Kramer offered to buy The Rake last year, but Mr. Bartel scoffed at the offering price.
#177) Matt Bartel ran with the local ad co-op idea for awhile (MN Stories and Daily Planet were in the mix) but somehow it never went anywhere. I sort of assume MNspeak was getting enough traffic that there was no incentive to share ad revenue. It's still a very good idea.
#178) MN Stories can now be yours - for a bag of lollipops!
»» Submitted by »»» chuck at 5:29 AM on February 22
#179) MNspeak was purchased for less than I thought.
#180) MinnPost made my socks fall asleep when it launched, but it's totally gotten way better. Especially the arts/media stuff.
#a!) Our town is full of grouchy-yet-lovable media moguls. I'd love to lock Kramer, Bartel, and Perry in a room with a bunch of Irish whiskey and see what happens - hopefully some sort of Lost dynamic.
@#$) Reason for Selling: Other Interests. If those interests include fine wine and guns - who can really argue?
»» Submitted by »»» chuck at 5:51 AM on February 22
How come no one has bothered to ask when the listing was actually placed with the broker? Seems to me Brauer should have mentioned this in his article. I'm guessing the listing is old news (rumors have been circulating for a while), and Brauer is not quite as clever as he seems if he had to have it land on his lap. Shouldn't reporters check these listings on a regular basis anyhow?
»» Submitted by a semi-interested party at 4:18 PM on February 22
I tried to ask Tom - but he was a no comment. The piece does state that I don't know how long the ad has been up.
And while I'd love to pretend I know everything about everything, I'm afraid I am unclever enough to rely on sources to tip me off to certain things.
I suspect more reporters will peek at the Calhoun Companies listings now.
I'd love to lock Kramer, Bartel, and Perry in a room with a bunch of Irish whiskey and see what happens.
Magic, Chuck. Most certainly magic. If only...
If only more of us could find a point of convergence. It would certainly make for better use of resources, if nothing else.
"I'd love to lock Kramer, Bartel, and Perry in a room with a bunch of Irish whiskey and see what happens."
Hmm. Reminds me of the time when some of us gathered at The Local. As I recall, ranty was there, as well as Jason, me, Max and others (wayne?) -- who else was there? Me memory is a wee bit foggy.
Heck, we could have closed the deal then and there.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 6:47 PM on February 22
And while I'd love to pretend I know everything about everything
@David - You really should come around here more often.
I thought the article was interesting and it's generated quite the kerfuffle.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 7:52 PM on February 22
I was there, bob...it was hot out...must have been the summer of 2006
Matt Bartel and Mike S wer there as well, but they really don't come around any more.
»» Submitted by grote at 9:01 PM on February 22
I'd buy The Rake and MNSpeak and then consolidate them into a regular magazine. Basically, heres the way the magazine would work: editors would come up article topics and the articles would be composed by having random people off the street could stop by the offices and chime in with their opinion on the topic(s) (regardless of how little/stupid knowledge they have on said topic) whatever the editors are told by the people off the street goes into the article. Also, I'd mandate that at least 1/3 of every article would have to be off-topic and each article must include at least 5 references to sex and 8 inside jokes.
Many people would subscribe to the magazine at first but then come to hate the magazine and will attempt to cancel their subscription. However, after continuing to receive the magazine in the mail for several months but not reading it, they'd get sucked back into reading it again after perusing it one day while sitting on the john (there was nothing else to read).
Name of new magazine?
The Hoe.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:15 AM on February 23
Sadly, that concept and The Hoe joke has been done before in several permutations.
How about The Plag(iarism).
The Third Pandemic began in China in 1855, spreading plague to all inhabited continents and ultimately gaining more than 12 million uniques in India and China alone.
Now that's market share.
»» Submitted by Who You Think I Am at 1:37 AM on February 23
I was there, bob...it was hot out...must have been the summer of 2006.
Matt Bartel and Mike S wer there as well, but they really don't come around any more.
It wouldn't be a valid MNgathering without you, grote. Yes, it was nice to meet Mike S. in the flesh. Lately the conservative side of the threads have suffered a brain drain in MNspeak -- excluding The Rat and Kevin -- and I miss conservative comments that are sincere, thoughtfull and not just troll bait or cliches.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 9:36 AM on February 23
Why doesn't this thread come up under Media?
»» Submitted by just me again at 1:25 PM on February 23
The Rat is conservative? I thought he was just getting a little long in the tooth.
»» Submitted by grote at 2:32 PM on February 23
Hope I don't look that way. I've worked on two Wellstone campaigns and for the Kerry campaign four years ago.
Hillary Clinton gets the nomination I'd volunteer. Not so sure about Obama.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 4:00 PM on February 23
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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