116 Comments:
Dear TPaw,
I read about your proposed cuts to metrotransit and the ensuing fare hikes/service cuts it would cause while on vacation in Boston. Boston has great transit that is frequent and everywhere. I told my Bostonian friends about this and we all had a good laugh about how backwards the midwest is. Then I remembered I had to come back and was very sad. Hope you're glad the coasts are laughing at us, and for putting a bittersweet note into my vacation, asshole.
You suck balls,
-Wayne
»» Submitted by wayno at 11:08 AM on March 24
I thought we just passed a sh*ton of new taxes for transit, why are my fares going up?
Oh wait, we did pass a sh*tton of dedicated transit taxes, but it's all going to the new regional pseudo-government with no guarantee (beyond an initial pittance) that it will benefit Metro Transit bus services $1. Somebody should have brought that up before...oh wait, we did. Well then why didn't they listen and...oh wait, such minor technicalities are no obstacle to a transit monger after more monies. It's not like they gutted local road funding and left out the two biggest counties...oh wait, they did that, too.
»» Submitted by kevin at 11:23 AM on March 24
kevin shut the fuck up, seriously.
the governor is trying to dip into the new taxes he fucking vetoed by way of a backdoor bullshit tactic where by cutting MT's operating budget, they're forced to take the lion's share of the new tax revenue from the counties to cover the shortfall. Let's also not forget when he cut LGA to the bone and, gasp!, property tax increases very closely followed the increased local spending on road maintinence!
Pawlenty is a douchehat that just pushes the tax burdens off onto other levels of government so he doesn't have to be the bad guy that raises taxes.
»» Submitted by wayno at 11:27 AM on March 24
How's the Big Dig working back home, wayno?
»» Submitted by The Rat at 11:27 AM on March 24
seriously, the sales tax was supposed to be mostly for new capital improvement projects for transit, but if he rips MT's funding out the sales tax will end up going mostly to plugging that hole and we STILL won't see any improvements in the system.
dude is a giant fuckwit that will do anything possible to eviscerate the cities because they don't vote for him and his ilk. he doesn't seem to give a shit that he's killing the fucking economic core of the state in the process of carrying out his little vindictive campaign against democrats.
»» Submitted by wayno at 11:30 AM on March 24
The BIG DIG is totally finished and the new parks downtown are a huge improvement over the giant highway that used to cut through Boston. As big of a hassle as it was, it was well worth it.
Imagine that, someplace not afraid to spend a bunch of money to improve itself for future generations!
WOW!
»» Submitted by wayno at 11:31 AM on March 24
to wayne's point, without the swearing, even Peter Bell (the man who brought us the Transit Strike a couple years back, a U strike, and is known as T-Paw's man) is criticizing Pawlenty.
As cjc points out here, ridership is up, but he isn't going to get a raise again. He is just expected to cart around more people, with higher expectations, on the same pay.
I tell him to look on the bright side. How could MT and T-Paw allow a strike this summer. They can't afford it with the State Fair and RNC happening at the same time. Add the success of the LRT to this, and they have a very nice bargining chip.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 11:44 AM on March 24
In fact, isn't ridership growing faster than MT's ability to expand service to meet that growth?
Talks of fare increases and service cuts almost sound like a back door attempt to kill the Central Corridor LRT, seeing we would fail to meet Federal requirements for funding if we're raising fares and slashing service.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 11:51 AM on March 24
Then I remembered I had to come back and was very sad.
You got sad because there's not enough bus routes?
It's not healthy to let forces beyond your control determine your mood, wayno.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 11:56 AM on March 24
Dear Wayno-
What can I say. You got me! But listen, I was elected on the platform that Eagen deserves just as much funding as Minneapolis so what do you expect? Do the math, home slice.
If I can succesfully turn Minneapolis into an abandoned cess-pool of crime, broken down schools, falling bridges, and horrible transit then...I have done my job.
Wait! I already have. Let's party!!!
BFF,
Timmeh
PS The Rat thanks for always being my lap dog posing as a "Liberal" (*snicker). You da man!
»» Submitted by TPaw at 11:56 AM on March 24
seriously, the sales tax was supposed to be mostly for new capital improvement projects for transit, but if he rips MT's funding out the sales tax will end up going mostly to plugging that hole and we STILL won't see any improvements in the system.
The sales tax can go for any capital improvements, operating assitance or planning for transit, but it CANNOT take the place of state funding for the Met Council, per the law, except for this year when it gets about $30,000,000. After that it's all up to the pseudo-government for where the money goes.
»» Submitted by kevin at 12:00 PM on March 24
sigh.
that raises a great point that the anti-tax avengers still somehow expect the central cities to help subsidize their ridiculous suburban lifestyles by using the state budget as a way to funnel money from the cities outward.
maybe we wouldn't need more taxes if rural bumfuck county didn't keep sucking up more than it pays in.
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:02 PM on March 24
that being the fake TPaw, not kevin.
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:03 PM on March 24
I wish the met council had taxing authority. The state has proven that it will do everything possible to fuck the metro area, the local municipalities are pretty much unable to do it on their own since they've already been forced to raise property taxes, pretty much their only real revenue source, way more than they should have to cover the budget shortfalls induced by pawlenty's douchehat LGA cuts.
A regional government can be a really good thing, but in america we don't know how to do it correctly. They need some actual power and dedicated funding to have a shot at actually helping develop a metropolitan area cohesively and in a well-thought-out manner.
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:06 PM on March 24
oh and the met council definitely needs to be not appointed by the governor. it needs to have at least some legitimacy and accountability to the metro area it serves (although they're surprisingly independent of ratfink the governor lately).
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:08 PM on March 24
Most suburbs get $0 LGA.
»» Submitted by kevin at 12:09 PM on March 24
Talks of fare increases and service cuts almost sound like a back door attempt to kill the Central Corridor LRT, seeing we would fail to meet Federal requirements for funding if we're raising fares and slashing service.
I think you are right. No one would want to be out front about killing the new line, but there are many opponents. This would be a good way of doing it without people knowing.
And, they can't really raise fairs again, can they? It is sooooo expensive to ride the bus. $4 a day, just to get to work and back, is a lot of money for a low income person, and that's if they don't have to take an express. Bus fares should be lower than packs of cigarettes and gallons of gas.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 12:12 PM on March 24
Don't forget about us!
We refuse to pay for the Twins stadium AND laff our asses off at your collapsing bridges.
So suck on that!
»» Submitted by Out State Nate at 12:12 PM on March 24
Most suburbs get $0 LGA.
Most suburbs get more state dollars in services back than they pay in. LGA was an attempt to even this out a bit for the cities that were giant net losers.
Don't distract.
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:18 PM on March 24
LGA has nothing to do with evening out how much state money a city gets compared to another. It was intended to help small cities get enough money to meet their needs and to lower overall property taxes.
»» Submitted by kevin at 12:30 PM on March 24
that raises a great point that the anti-tax avengers still somehow expect the central cities to help subsidize their ridiculous suburban lifestyles by using the state budget as a way to funnel money from the cities outward.
I would love to keep my money, cut all taxes. I don't give a shit about the city and do not care if you have a bus to ride. You keep your tax dollars and we will keep ours then we will see what is and what is not sustainable. This state is one of the most taxed states in the country. People need to quite whining about ridding a bus or train and come to the realization that many people that vote do not want to pay anymore money to government. Cut something out and put it toward mass transit but enough of the more more more taxes for me me me syndrome. People like me do not want to see another train built and I will vote against anyone who supports it.
»» Submitted by swandog at 12:39 PM on March 24
LGA has nothing to do with evening out how much state money a city gets compared to another. It was intended to help small cities get enough money to meet their needs and to lower overall property taxes
Please just cut all taxes.
»» Submitted by swandog at 12:40 PM on March 24
You keep your tax dollars and we will keep ours then we will see what is and what is not sustainable.
Here's how it would work:
1) MT gets no more tax dollars.
2) They have to raise fares to $5 each way.
3) This is completely unaffordable for low income families
4) Low income wage earners stop taking the bus.
5) The bus routes are cut, because there is not enough ridership.
and
6) Low income wage earners lose their jobs because they have no way to get to them.
7) Children and adults starve to death because the welfare system also does not pay for itself.
8) Mass hysteria leads to communist revolution.
Sounds like a sweet plan.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 12:44 PM on March 24
Or, as long as we're going to extremes, more able-bodied people nut up and provide for themselves.
»» Submitted by kevin at 12:50 PM on March 24
kc, that's also how we could turn ourselves into a cold ... I don't know, cleaveland? indianapolis? columbus? &etc.
»» Submitted by wayno at 12:53 PM on March 24
also, if the suburbs would stop bleeding the cities and rural areas dry via state income taxes, the cities might actually be able to afford to pay for their own transit. No really, let's keep all tax revenues local and see how well that goes for the exurbs.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:00 PM on March 24
er state taxes in general, I mean
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:00 PM on March 24
1) MT gets no more tax dollars.
2) They have to raise fares to $5 each way.
3) This is completely unaffordable for low income families
4) Low income wage earners stop taking the bus.
5) The bus routes are cut, because there is not enough ridership.
and
6) Low income wage earners lose their jobs because they have no way to get to them.
7) Children and adults starve to death because the welfare system also does not pay for itself.
8) Mass hysteria leads to communist revolution.
Sounds like a sweet plan
Well let's try it and see if people get off of their asses and go to work when they are hungary. Hunger is a very good motivator. The other option is they move back from were they came from and we loose large amounts of individuals on welfare to other states.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:00 PM on March 24
YES! LET'S MAKE POOR PEOPLE WALK FIFTEEN MILES FROM THE ONLY PLACE THEY CAN AFFORD TO LIVE TO THE ONLY JOB THEY CAN FIND IN SOME OTHER SUBURB ACROSS THE METRO, MAKING MINIMUM WAGE!
because, you know, the bus costs MONEY to run, and shit, we ain't got none of that!
this decentralized mess of a metro is choking on its own shit and wonders why traffic is getting so bad.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:02 PM on March 24
Er...I thought that intelligent people realize that they need to pay taxes for things they don't actually use to make the whole a better place to live. In general the amount of bang we get for each tax buck is pretty decent. You will always be able to find things that can be cut and I think we need to work toward that but cutting mass transit is not one of them.
That being said could we get some people with negotiation skills at Metro Transit when they are bidding out contracts? Seems like we get fucked every time, things are never delivered on time or budget and the companies retain the rights to everything so we don't have real time arrival schedules available via cell phone, schedules that are down loadable into a spreadsheet, no on time data etc, the list goes on and on.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 1:03 PM on March 24
The other option is they move back from were they came from and we loose large amounts of individuals on welfare to other states.
What the hell does this mean? Seriously? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 1:05 PM on March 24
minnesota is about to lose an entire generation of talented young people to other cities around the country that have their act together. let's see how its tax base looks in twenty years after all this shoot-yourself-in-the-foot shit settles. I guess it's a good thing your social security cheques will be federal, eh?
ooh! let's also see how many fortune 500 companies you can drive away, asshats!
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:10 PM on March 24
Hunger is a good motivator.
I hope you are pro-choice because abortion would rise significantly when people realized that they would have no way to feed a child.
I hope you have a good security system at your home and you never walk on the street or stop your car because crime would increase as people found new and unique ways to feed themselves.
I hope you are okay with child labor because children would have to start working to make money for their families. I'm sure only a small portion would be sold into prostitution.
I hope you have a strong stomach. The pictures of children dying of starvation because their parents can't find work and can't buy food will be very disturbing.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 1:10 PM on March 24
I'd also like to point out that, YAY, minnesota is and has been in the bottom ten states for federal benefits vs. dollars paid in (federal) taxes for the past, what, 18 years?
We lose money as a state, the cities lose money to the suburbs and bridges collapse and the economy is shit and everything is just hunkey-dorey and we need to cut more taxes, right?
I am LOSING MY MIND trying to understand how you people can be such ridiculously selfish short-sighted assholes.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:14 PM on March 24
No one forced you to live here, wayne.
---------
That being said could we get some people with negotiation skills at Metro Transit when they are bidding out contracts? Seems like we get fucked every time, things are never delivered on time or budget and the companies retain the rights to everything so we don't have real time arrival schedules available via cell phone, schedules that are down loadable into a spreadsheet, no on time data etc, the list goes on and on.
Amen, like the to-go cards that they started how many years ago? Have they even got them working yet? Or Bob's pre-owned green buses with seats so bad they have to be replaced? Or whoever thought it was a good idea to buy the buses with paddingless metal seats. Is there even a clock at the Lake/Chicago station?
»» Submitted by kevin at 1:21 PM on March 24
What the hell does this mean? Seriously? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Big news flash people moving to Minnesota that are poor come here for the welfare. Does this surprise you?
I hope you are pro-choice because abortion would rise significantly when people realized that they would have no way to feed a child.
I am definitely pro choice. If someone can't pay maybe they should not play. Oh but I should pay for their kids, I forgot I live in Minnesota.
I hope you have a strong stomach. The pictures of children dying of starvation because their parents can't find work and can't buy food will be very disturbing
Are you kidding when has someone starved in the U.S.. The real dilemma would be they can't get a game boy or a cell phone oh no.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:25 PM on March 24
But the drivers are much better about not leaving stops early now than they were a few years ago. Next to poor climate control, that's my #1 bus peeve.
»» Submitted by kevin at 1:27 PM on March 24
I miss living in a city where I can just walk out to the bus stop and expect one to come by in a reasonable amount of time without first planning my day around the schedule.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:29 PM on March 24
Big news flash people moving to Minnesota that are poor come here for the welfare. Does this surprise you?
Big news flash. I recently worked in the Hennepin County welfare office. I was there for five years. I still work in Human Services. This is not really true. While a very few do, they move here for Medical Assistance, not cash or food stamps.
Are you kidding when has someone starved in the U.S..
That's because of our welfare programs, like MFIP and Food Stamps. Without food stamps children would starve.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 1:35 PM on March 24
A reliable used car would save a you a ton of grief, wayne. You wouldn't have to drive it all year.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 1:35 PM on March 24
I miss living in a city where I can just walk out to the bus stop and expect one to come by in a reasonable amount of time without first planning my day around the schedule.
Wayne, have you considered a different part of the city? When I want a bus I walk outside and wait for one. One always comes in 10 minutes or less, except on Sundays and very late at night and very early in the morning. Or I can walk 3 blocks and catch a different bus that comes as frequently.
But I get what you are saying.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 1:37 PM on March 24
I live within a block of about ten bus routes and within the downtown zone limit.
but anytime past about 8pm or on a weekend, half-hour frequency is the norm.
I'm sorry, but every 30 minutes is not ok for living so close to downtown in any city.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:49 PM on March 24
the whole MT restructuring of the NE/SE routes about, what, 3-4 years ago?, totally fucked things up. Why do only half of the 4/6 buses cross the river? that's horse-shit.
And why the bloody hell is there still no route that goes across the 10th ave bridge from the DTE/Metrodome station? What the hell?
The 10 is nice sometimes, but as soon as nighttime rolls around it's just as scarce as the four and six on this side of the river.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:52 PM on March 24
wayne...a reliable girfriend with a reliable car and a well-paying job will cure all of your life's problems...even if you have to settle.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:52 PM on March 24
So, move to a different part of the city.
The 18 is every 7-15 min in the evening and 10-15 minutes on Sunday. If you live closer to the city than 24th on Nicollet you add the 17 in there and have bus every 5-10 minutes from 5:00am to 1:00pm. The 5, 16, and 21 are equally awesome in frequency.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 1:55 PM on March 24
no no no!
no used cars!
no girlfriends with cars! (well maybe, but not just for the cars)
no compromising on this!
I have taken a stand and will not be broken, no matter how difficult ratfink assholes in st paul try.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:55 PM on March 24
Big news flash. I recently worked in the Hennepin County welfare office. I was there for five years. I still work in Human Services. This is not really true. While a very few do, they move here for Medical Assistance, not cash or food stamps.
Medical assistance it not a form of welfare, come on. You prove my point. People with out the means to support themselves come here and suck our system dry. I suppose that Medical assistance is free to the taxpayer. Furthermore, the people that participate in medical assistance only take money from that program and no other, wake up. Cut taxes and keep the system suckers out.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:55 PM on March 24
Big news flash. I recently worked in the Hennepin County welfare office. I was there for five years. I still work in Human Services. This is not really true. While a very few do, they move here for Medical Assistance, not cash or food stamps.
Medical assistance it not a form of welfare, come on. You prove my point. People with out the means to support themselves come here and suck our system dry. I suppose that Medical assistance is free to the taxpayer. Furthermore, the people that participate in medical assistance only take money from that program and no other, wake up. Cut taxes and keep the system suckers out.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:55 PM on March 24
... to make it for me.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:56 PM on March 24
That's because of our welfare programs, like MFIP and Food Stamps. Without food stamps children would starve.
Or not be able to buy a gameboy. ho no boo hoo.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:57 PM on March 24
So, move to a different part of the city.
The 18 is every 7-15 min in the evening and 10-15 minutes on Sunday. If you live closer to the city than 24th on Nicollet you add the 17 in there and have bus every 5-10 minutes from 5:00am to 1:00pm. The 5, 16, and 21 are equally awesome in frequency.
except I like where I live and I can walk to work so I don't need the bus every day anyway. Actually, part of why I decided to live so close was to avoid having to rely on the bus.
But if I ever want to do anything/go out at night when it's not biking weather, I'm pretty screwed for timing. Then there's that whole 'have to leave by 12:30 to catch the last bus' thing. Weak.
Can I also point out that the 5/16/21 all go through, how do I put this, less desirable parts of town? Yes, those areas definitely need the service, but there's still the catch-22 of no one is going to ride the bus if it's inconveniently infrequent, but no one wants to up frequency if no one is riding it.
»» Submitted by wayno at 1:59 PM on March 24
swandog has obviously never lived on the margins before.
»» Submitted by wayno at 2:00 PM on March 24
Wayne, since we live in almost the same neighborhood, do you know if there's a bus that travels down University towards the U without causing me to transfer downtown first?
»» Submitted by jimn at 2:01 PM on March 24
no compromising on this! I have taken a stand and will not be broken
Even if it means driving myself crazy.
Then you've made you bed. Sleep in it.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 2:02 PM on March 24
Wayno, what about one of our cities' many fine, affordable secret car services, manned by moonlighting musicians? You can get a ride from your favorite boozehole back home and safe to old Northeast for a few bucks. Car services is how my friends in Brooklyn* do it.
*Brooklyn is a real city!
»» Submitted by »»» andyst at 2:07 PM on March 24
jimn, do you live further up in northeast? If so, there isn't. You've got to take the 11 down to just before it crosses the bridge to downtown then walk a block over to catch the 6 out to the U.
I really wish they had a bus that run up university(/4th) all the way through the NE and came more often. I don't really make it up to the 'real' nordeast enough, especially when it's cold.
»» Submitted by wayno at 2:15 PM on March 24
I just rode in one of those brooklyn car services this past friday evening (or saturday morning more accurately) from a warehouse in bushwick to a walk-up in bed-stuy. but my brooklyn friends were telling me about how sketchy many of them are and various altercations they've had with the drivers.
so yeah, maybe not.
»» Submitted by wayno at 2:17 PM on March 24
Aw, Wayno, I lend a fellow car-hatin' brother a locally-specific, personally-verifiable hand, only to have it slapped down? Cold shot, Mister!
»» Submitted by »»» andyst at 2:27 PM on March 24
Thanks Wayne. I live over near the Spring Street Tavern. Looks like I can do the same with the 17 to the 6.
»» Submitted by jimn at 2:32 PM on March 24
swandog, did you miss my point that the number who come here are VERY FEW. You must have.
Furthermore, the people that participate in medical assistance only take money from that program and no other, wake up.
And many, many Minnesotans are on Medical Assistance (or GAMC or MCRE) only. In fact, in a given year, 666,000 people are on a Minnesota Health Care Program. At the same time, only 120,000 Households are on Food Support and only 34,000 households are on MFIP (that overlaps with the FS number.) 15,400 people receive GA in a given month and 28,840 receive MSA in a given year.
So, clearly there are many people who received medical who do not receive cash or food stamps.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 2:32 PM on March 24
Andy- I've only been hanging round these parts for a few months and I already know not to give Wayno any kind of reasonable alternative to whatever he is whining about for the day. Usually it only adds fuel to his whining.
»» Submitted by »»» mb21 at 2:34 PM on March 24
Thanks Wayne. I live over near the Spring Street Tavern.
That's The Rat's hood. Cubbies as well, as I recall.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 2:42 PM on March 24
So, clearly there are many people who received medical who do not receive cash or food stamps
My point is that you attract people to Minnesota for a welfare program. I do not care what it is called it is in the end a taxpayer had out. We are attracting people who do not obviously have the skills to find a job in their state but instead come here to suck our system for free health care. In the end you increase the overall number of people who want something for nothing. How many of the people you site in your numbers are originally from MN that is my point. We are call Minneapolis for a reason and it is not just the extra margins drug dealers get for a rock.
»» Submitted by swandog at 2:46 PM on March 24
andy, no diss! I will just forever wish for viable transit options, even if shady car services fill in the gap for now.
also I imagine the folks in brooklyn are probably a little skeevier than the minnesota variety, so maybe I was too quick to dismiss it.
»» Submitted by wayno at 2:51 PM on March 24
either way, biking season is nearly here and I will once again be independent!
»» Submitted by wayno at 2:53 PM on March 24
oh and if you live up that way you can do the 10 or the 17 down and transfer too.
»» Submitted by wayno at 2:54 PM on March 24
Actually, based on the fact that you wrote "Furthermore, the people that participate in medical assistance only take money from that program and no other, wake up," I think your point was that they take other benefits on top of MA, which isn't true.
And, it is impossible to tell how many people come from other states just for the welfare benefits. One reason it that you must be a Minnesota Resident to get most benefits. That means you must live here for a certain amount of time to get benefits.
And how many are originally are from MN would be a worthless fact anyhow. If you move to MN when you are two and go on MA when you are 65 does that mean you moved here for the welfare? No.
And I assume you are willing to let all the elderly and seriously disabled people in nursing homes and facilities live with you when you cut their Medical Assistance?
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 2:54 PM on March 24
either way, biking season is nearly here and I will once again be independent!
Pedal hard and live free, wayne!
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 2:56 PM on March 24
Dammit, that reminds me I need two new tire tubes on my bike. Sh*t!
»» Submitted by kevin at 2:59 PM on March 24
There's a new Penn Cycle just opened near my hood. Gotta check it out.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 3:04 PM on March 24
Well, Wayne, the trick is to find a car service that you know you can rely on. I will send you the secret, well-guarded name and number of mine, once you approve my friend request on MySpace. Which has been lying there for two weeks, jerk!
»» Submitted by »»» andyst at 3:05 PM on March 24
well I've been sick/out of town for the last two weeks! Today's my first real day back! I'll dig through my spizzace and approve it posthaste after work hours!
»» Submitted by wayno at 3:09 PM on March 24
and I'm going to need to tune up my poor baby that I left out in the cold. he's got a flat, too ):
»» Submitted by wayno at 3:09 PM on March 24
and I'm going to need to tune up my poor baby that I left out in the cold. he's got a flat, too ):
If you left it out, it's going to need more than a tune up.
Me, I'm going to order a new wheel set this week.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 3:22 PM on March 24
And, it is impossible to tell how many people come from other states just for the welfare benefits. One reason it that you must be a Minnesota Resident to get most benefits. That means you must live here for a certain amount of time to get benefits
If you must be a resident, and I assume you check this, then their is a way to find out if someone just recently moved to MN Or has moved here within the time frame to qualify for a given welfare benefit thus it is track able. I do not care if we feed cloth and support everyone in this world, that is not my problem. You may feel that it is something that I and others should pay for but I do not. I am sick of paying taxes and want to keep my money for me. I am selfish and do not want to pay for others. If they can't keep a job it is not my problem. You can throw out the poor elderly and the poor child crap but in the end no I don't care. Government has been creating a "need" for a long time and enough is enough.
»» Submitted by swandog at 3:24 PM on March 24
Wow, you are a total selfish asshole. I guess I didn't realize what I was dealing with.
Just remember what you said here when you or someone you love (if you even love anyone) needs the welfare system you hate so much.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 3:38 PM on March 24
I wonder if this was the "white anger" Obama was talking 'bout.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 3:43 PM on March 24
I have a feeling swandog would be very happy living in South Dakota. No state taxes, dude.
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 3:46 PM on March 24
I would definitely pay more taxes if it would make that miserable sob Swinedog stfu.
Can we start a pledge drive?
»» Submitted by Joe Taxpayer at 3:56 PM on March 24
Wow, you are a total selfish asshole. I guess I didn't realize what I was dealing with.
Just remember what you said here when you or someone you love (if you even love anyone) needs the welfare system you hate so much
I might be a selfish ass hole but that does not negate that we spend way to much money on bottom feeders. Give me a break boo hoo my heart is bleeding. Just remember that the money I pay in taxes is what you receive as income.
I wonder if this was the "white anger" Obama was talking 'bout.
I don't care what color someone is my anger comes from others stealing my money in the form of taxes and redistributing it to bottom feeders.
I have a feeling swandog would be very happy living in South Dakota. No state taxes, dude.
Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!
I live were I want to live and while I am here I will be politically active to reform the tax system. Watch out the last election was a gift to the Dem's. In the end the taxpayers are pissed off and going to vote this year, you can count on it.
»» Submitted by swandog at 4:20 PM on March 24
I really don't think you'd like living in a state with a tax system similar to SD's. Why do you think I moved here?
Oh, and not on welfare, never have been.
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 4:23 PM on March 24
Just remember that the money I pay in taxes is what you receive as income. So? And the money I pay in taxes is also what I receive as income. And the money I pay in taxes also pays Tim Pawlenty's salary. What is your point?
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 4:40 PM on March 24
I really don't think you'd like living in a state with a tax system similar to SD's. Why do you think I moved here?
I don't know mybe to get away from mom and dad and say you live in a big city with a too too train.
»» Submitted by swandog at 4:42 PM on March 24
I'm so sick of that condescending phrase "too too train" bein' thrown around. In the interest of the sort of high-minded discourse MNSpeak was created to foster, I suggest that gas-guzzling monster automobiles be referred to as "Tonka twucks." With the wispy wittle-boy "r"-to-"w" shift to be used at all times.
»» Submitted by »»» andyst at 4:58 PM on March 24
DUDE, it's choo-choo. A 4th grader may even be able to articulate that.
Furthermore, you need how to learn how to differentiate between 'their' and 'there' and 'loose' and 'lose', and understand their proper uses before you expect anyone to take you seriously.
»» Submitted by Mr. Rogers at 4:59 PM on March 24
And the money I pay in taxes is also what I receive as income. And the money I pay in taxes also pays Tim Pawlenty's salary. What is your point?
My point is that you have an agenda and that would be keeping the system going so you can get paid. Government produces nothing it only takes money and redistributes it. Most of it is a complete wast of money and goes to your salary. Government is the largest employer in the state and that is a scary thought. My main point is that I hope we can cut taxes in this state so we can cut your job from the budget and remove welfare payment and medical benefits from the budget.
»» Submitted by swandog at 4:59 PM on March 24
Wayne, don't forget hourcar. Is there a drop-off in your neighborhood? Might be just the ticket for those late night danceathons.
»» Submitted by Tib at 5:01 PM on March 24
Government is the largest employer in the state and that is a scary thought.
A totally misleading claim. And the fact is not scary at all. It may be the single largest employer, but so what. Total private sector employment vastly outnumbers total public sector employment.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 5:13 PM on March 24
Government produces nothing it only takes money and redistributes it.
/em>
Yeah, right: The freeway system. The transparency of our financial system (even if it could be better). The public safety agencies. The monitoring of medical devices and drugs, not to mention all the basic research that underpines our technology.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 5:18 PM on March 24
Wayne, don't forget hourcar. Is there a drop-off in your neighborhood? Might be just the ticket for those late night danceathons.
Also Wayne, don't forget hourgirl. Is there a pick-up in your neighborhood? Might be just the ticket for those late night palmathons.
»» Submitted by 7th Street Entry at 5:20 PM on March 24
.fixed?
»» Submitted by fix at 5:28 PM on March 24
I don't know mybe to get away from mom and dad and say you live in a big city with a too too train.
There was no train when I moved here, unless you count Amtrak. No, I wanted to live in a city, that, I don't know thinks of culture as something more than dollar beer nights and meat raffles, all while earning about $6 an hour more than I would in SD. Oh, and don't forget no sales tax on clothes. And you can condescend to me when you learn something about sentence structure and basic spelling.
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 5:49 PM on March 24
Swandog, your arguments are ridiculous. I have neither the time or inclination to break them down in detail, but I don't need to when I can refer you to a much better source. John Locke insisted not only that the public welfare was the test of good government and the basis for properly imposing obligations on the citizens of a country; but, also, that the public welfare made government necessary.
In case you don't remember from high school history class, John Locke was a political philosopher (among other things) upon whose theories our country is based on, in large part. You might want to read up on them before you decide that Darwinism is a spectacular way to run a country.
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 5:50 PM on March 24
Let's distinguish between Darwinism and Social Darwinism. Darwin was quite aware that the survival of a species often depended on its ability to cooperate and adapt as a species. Social Darwinists would have you believe that species survive by eating weaker members of their own species.
That weak baby was fucking delicious.
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 6:08 PM on March 24
I hate how babies move out of the uterus and immediately start looking for handouts. Get a freakin' job, you lazy little bastard, and don't try and live off of my hard-earned money.
Yeah, and they're always full of excuses like, "I can't hold my head up," "I can't form words yet," "My soft spot is a handicap," and "I'll start working when I move from milk to cereal."
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 6:16 PM on March 24
Let's distinguish between Darwinism and Social Darwinism. Darwin was quite aware that the survival of a species often depended on its ability to cooperate and adapt as a species. Social Darwinists would have you believe that species survive by eating weaker members of their own species.
I am not a physical anthropologist but have taken some Physical Anthropology classes.
Evolution has nothing to do with survival of a species, it is about survival of the individual. I just want this to be clear. There is a ton of competition between individuals of the same species. Wolves don't compete with whales because they are adapted to different niches. Wolves often kill each other in order to have more resources available to the indivdual/pack.
So I think the term social darwinism is proper, as we as individuals are competing for the limited resources of the earth.
Decrease Spending:
1. Welfare
2. Defense Spending
3. Corporate welfare
Increase Spending:
1. Public transport
2. Education (teaching, rather than research a la UMN, teaching sucks there while research is good)
3. Sustainable growth programs (population reduction, energy efficiency, etc.)
Yes, I am pro-abortion all the way!
KC: Do you really believe that giving someone free stuff doesn't make them try even less and in turn makes them even more lazy? Seriously that is pure human nature. Education is good though, that should be free.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 7:16 PM on March 24
Wolves don't compete with whales because they are adapted to different niches.
Whoa. That would be awesome. That's going in Venus Police.
»» Submitted by »»» andyst at 7:20 PM on March 24
They didn't teach Locke in my high school. BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE.
»» Submitted by kevin is kinda frisky at 7:44 PM on March 24
Do you really believe that giving someone free stuff doesn't make them try even less and in turn makes them even more lazy? Seriously that is pure human nature. Education is good though, that should be free.
First, this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Wouldn't giving someone free education make them lazy by your reasoning?
And no, I don't believe welfare makes people lazy. A single adult who qualifies for cash (most don't due to the difficult requirements for it) get $203 a month, about $160 a month in food stamps and medical care. Almost no one can live off that. A parent and child gets around $450 a month.
Study after study shows that people often go on welfare programs for a short time then get off them when their crisis passes. While they be on and off a few times over their lifetime, the work much more than they receive benefits. At least that goes for MFIP type clients.
Also, people who work full time often qualify for Food Stamps and MinnesotaCare. If someone works 40 hours a week shouldn't they be about to feed their family and have medical coverage? I think so. But vlad and swandog would prefer they suffer.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 8:02 PM on March 24
Interesting welfare situations.
First off, I support education because that is a way to truly pull people out of the gutter.
Second, while I am not 100% against welfare, I have my doubts about its effectiveness. It seems that the state is held hostage by people who make bad decisions. Single mother has a child, we can't let the child starve, thus give her payouts. WTF is a person who is financially insecure doing having a child. A proper government would subsidize abortions if anything but that would never pass with the fundies in the US.
Anyway, it is hard to support welfare when you read articles like this from the MN Daily:
quote:
Darlene McKissick is in a precarious situation, as she has been since she gave birth to twins at age 17 and first entered the welfare system.
"I just don't make enough right now to let go," said McKissick, who now is a 38-year-old single parent of six children.
So this lady had six kids, and is having financial problems. Hmm, I wonder why? The state is forced to give her welfare so she can have more children....
Not to mention what kind of problems her children will cause as future Minnesota citizens......
Anyway, I suppose welfare is ok to help people get up on their feet, but it appears it enables situations like this. Difficult issue.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 8:28 PM on March 24
That article is from 2002. I wonder what became of Ms. McKissick. Seriously. Did she get a good job and lived happily ever after? Did her kids all get jobs and chip in to the household expenses? Did she move away? Is she dead? The Daily should do a follow-up and find out. It would be what they used to call "good journalism."
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:38 PM on March 24
WTF is a person who is financially insecure doing having a child.
Spouses die, spouses walk out and disappear, parents get sick or injured and lose their job, or become unable to work, kids have medical issues that require a parent to provide round- the-clock care.
All of these are probably more common than the example you gave.
Remember also that Clinton signed the " Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996" which eliminated AFDC ("welfare"), and instituted a 5 year lifetime limit to receiving assistance, as well as imposing work requirements.
kc probably has a better grasp of what those changes meant.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 8:40 PM on March 24
Hmm, in that case, it seems that welfare is not a big deal at all.
If someone has statistics on the percentage of the federal and state budgets that go to welfarish programs, probably pennies in the bucket.
On the other hand medical related expenses suck a ton of cash and I imagine poor people qualify for them...
ehh, all this shit is probably a fraction of the money we spend nation-building in iraq.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 8:46 PM on March 24
ehh, all this shit is probably a fraction of the money we spend nation-building in iraq.
Even less than the trillions we spent freeing your parents from the grip of communism.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:54 PM on March 24
A proper government would subsidize abortions if anything but that would never pass with the fundies in the US.
Minnesota does. If you qualify for Medical Assistance the state will pay for your abortion with state funds.
And the five year limit is real. People really have been kicked off welfare. Most people get jobs and don't worry about the five year limit. Those who do get kicked off welfare usually give up their child to another family member since they are no longer able to take care of them. It is a very sad situation.
And, having worked in the welfare office I have seen truely heartbreaking situations. I have also seen a lot of bull shit.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 8:54 PM on March 24
Minnesota does. If you qualify for Medical Assistance the state will pay for your abortion with state funds.
Really? I wonder how many minnesotans actually know this little factoid. Hmmmm.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 8:58 PM on March 24
It went to the Minnesota Supreme Court when the Hyde amendment was passed. Let's just say all the anti-choice activists know about it, and so do all the pro-choice ones. It isn't a secret. The clinics work hard to get women covered so their abortions are paid for.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 9:02 PM on March 24
Maz pontificating on good journalism is as silly as Maz pontificating on good Web design.
"anti-choice" activists. heh. I love pseudonym gymnastics.
»» Submitted by »»» mazasapa at 9:04 PM on March 24
I love pseudonymous gymnsasts . Like Ivana Humpalot.
»» Submitted by grote at 9:24 PM on March 24
and instituted a 5 year lifetime limit to receiving assistance, as well as imposing work requirements.
Democrats did their level best to repeal these last year and would have done more if not for it being pointed out that what they wanted to do would have opened us up to millions of dollars in fines from the feds.
»» Submitted by kevin is kinda frisky at 10:00 PM on March 24
I am glad to hear the state pays for abortions.
Excellent use of taxes. Now, increase bike lanes and public transport.
Woo-hoo
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 10:54 PM on March 24
It is sooooo expensive to ride the bus. $4 a day, just to get to work and back, is a lot of money for a low income person
LOL Have you seen the cars many low-income people drive? I bet that a $4/day bus fare would actually SAVE them money over having to buy 1 to 2 gallons of gasoline per day to fuel their commute. Even though I don't consider myself low-income, and I live relatively close to where I work, I still spend at almost $3/day for gasoline for my 20-mile round-trip commute. Imagine living in the city and having to commute to where the real jobs are in the 'burbs? Gotta be at least a 30- to 40-mile roundtrip commute.
I don't think hourcar would appreciate me driving their cute little vehicles home drunk. Nor would I ever do that.
But there is an hourcar just across the street from where I live.
»» Submitted by wayno at 9:22 AM on March 25
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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