59 Comments:
If a baby falls out the window and nobody sees it, does it make a sound?
»» Submitted by Billy Bob at 1:33 AM on April 24
Is there some reason children keep falling out of windows?
Yes, there is, and it is pretty straight forward. Window screens are designed to keep bugs out, not to prevent children (and pets) from falling out. Safety experts suggest blocking upper story windows (a nail works just fine) from opening far enough for a toddler to fall out. You can pull the nail out when the kid gets a little bigger.
As the father of one of the two kids who fell said "Sure, it may get a little warm in the summer, but so what, compared to what our family went through..."
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 7:09 AM on April 24
Yes, there's a reason: gravity.
»» Submitted by Tom B. at 8:05 AM on April 24
It was but a few months ago that "baby bumps" were the Hollywood celebrity trend, established by the award-winning Juno, peaking on the very night of its Oscar win. A few months have passed, and what was fashionable then is something to dispense with now, like so many Hypercolor shirts and distressed jeans.
That's right, it's Diablo Cody's fault.
»» Submitted by champs|rt53 at 8:22 AM on April 24
Evolution at work. Let it continue.
»» Submitted by Darwin at 8:34 AM on April 24
I blame fiberglass screens. Did kids fall out of windows when aluminum screens were the norm? No? I rest my case.
»» Submitted by »»» sornie at 8:45 AM on April 24
So scary what can happen when you turn your back for 15 seconds!
»» Submitted by amy2 at 8:46 AM on April 24
Sornie, people have been falling out of windows since there were windows, and dying since the buildings were tall enough to have a fatal fall.
And to answer the question -- I would guess it's like kids in hot cars. Always happened, but once it becomes a "what's with all the-" story, every one gets put on the front page.
As for the whole gravity/diablo cody/darwin thing -- let the body get cold first. It's cllassier, and it gives you a chance to come up with gallows humor that's actually funny.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 8:48 AM on April 24
What kurtis said. Kids be fallin' since forever
But now we got the lever
It didn't mean nothin' to the drek
Unless your name be Eric
And your son be Connor, star of the sad long song
So let's ban the window- WRONG!
»» Submitted by quit it now at 8:58 AM on April 24
So, the one kid must not have been Minnesotan? 'Cause didn't Bob tell us that Minnesotan's always survive falls?
Bob, I think there are better ways than a nail to prevent the window from opening. Sure it would be effective, but, at least when I was a kid, most safety experts also recommended the use of a rope ladder for use as a fire escape from upper floors. A nail is going to be much more difficult to remove in an emergency.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 8:59 AM on April 24
Evolution at work. Let it continue
Really? I don't know why, but the dead baby jokes aren't funny to me this morning.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 9:02 AM on April 24
You only have to block the windows that a child could reach and possibly fall out of. In my house, that would be two of seven -- pleanty of other egresses in case of fire.
I don't have a emergency ladder, but have often thought about getting one. Time to stop thinking and start buying, I guess.
And folks -- these are little kids getting killed and badly hurt. A little less dark humor and compasion for their parents wouldn't hurt anyone. I'm sure none of them imagined it could happen to their child, until it did.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 9:08 AM on April 24
Never put a bed by a window.
»» Submitted by swandog at 9:10 AM on April 24
OK, the tone of this thread is why MnSpeak sorta sucks sometimes, my friends.
Cut it out with the frickin' jokes, 'K?
Then again, why even reason or plead with people who think stuff like this is funny? If you find another person's horrible emotional agony to be humorous, you're really beyond hope.
»» Submitted by pathetic at 9:42 AM on April 24
And folks -- these are little kids getting killed and badly hurt. A little less dark humor and compasion for their parents wouldn't hurt anyone. I'm sure none of them imagined it could happen to their child, until it did.
No offense (well, maybe a LITTLE offense) but where were was this attitude on Monday when you were so busy worrying about whether the dude who'd accidentally shot his son was going to lose his hunting license?
»» Submitted by »»» crz at 9:45 AM on April 24
(Hey Max, this was another PiPress link that didn't work for me - I think you may have to remove that "?nclick_check=1" suffix when you hotlink it. It's weird because I KNOW these have worked for me in the past with this same browser, but it's been two this week for me so this is my best guess...)
»» Submitted by »»» crz at 9:45 AM on April 24
Really? I don't know why, but the dead baby jokes aren't funny to me this morning.
'Cause they're rarely grounded in reality?
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 9:48 AM on April 24
No offense (well, maybe a LITTLE offense) but where were was this attitude on Monday when you were so busy worrying about whether the dude who'd accidentally shot his son was going to lose his hunting license?
I knew someone would call me out on that, and perhaps justifiably so. Okay: Pot, meet kettle. However, I didn't make jokes about the 9-year-old accidently shot by his father, did I?
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 9:54 AM on April 24
Having me me mnblrmkr, you know that I have a rather disgusting and inappropriate sense of humor. I get it that most of the time when we joke about babies as food groups etc. that it is just that... joking. The tone of the comments here this morning is different, at least in my opinion. Saying a child who died from an accident is Darwin's law is a little harsh. I don't remember any of us making jokes like this when the Abigail Taylor incident and subsequent death happened.
Like I said, it just rubbed me the wrong way this morning. I belive little kids are innocent in any kind of accident like this.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 9:59 AM on April 24
Having me me
Should read "Having met me"... oops
I'm drinking caffeine for the first time in 2 months and I'm all hyped up... I feel like I'm on drugs or something.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 10:08 AM on April 24
Having me me mnblrmkr, you know that I have a rather disgusting and inappropriate sense of humor. I get it that most of the time when we joke about babies as food groups etc. that it is just that... joking. The tone of the comments here this morning is different, at least in my opinion.
Yeah, I get that. But I think part of the reason the tone is different is because there is a connection to reality this time. Almost anything can be funny (if inappropriate) in abstract.
Maybe I missed one, but I don't remember any of the babies as food type threads having any connection to any actual incidents.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 10:09 AM on April 24
But I think part of the reason the tone is different is because there is a connection to reality this time.
I think you're right.
Apparently I don't believe in spell check either. Jeez o'peets...
»» Submitted by mb@work at 10:13 AM on April 24
Yeah, what the hell?
Aside from other moral questions, there's a reasonable chance a family member might read some of these comments. Things like that have happened before on this site. Is an edgy one-liner worth the risk of rubbing salt in those kinds of wounds?
»» Submitted by »»» teucer at 10:15 AM on April 24
I didn't RTFA but wonder if somehow they managed to include the word "defenestrate" or "defenestration"? Because an opportunity to use that fine word doesn't come up very often.
»» Submitted by jane_ at 10:16 AM on April 24
Well put, teucer.
»» Submitted by jane_ at 10:17 AM on April 24
Obviously, this discussion has little to do with the actual story and is now more about the nature of humor. Or at least the timing of humor.
It's hard to say if humor is subject to taste in the same way a piece of art is. For example, we can find an offensive piece of art beautiful while someone else can be repulsed. That's called taste. However, can you really joke about a real two-year-old who fell out of a window and died? Is there comic fodder in that story? Is that in the realm of "taste" or is there a line that is more clearly drawn in an instance like this?
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 10:17 AM on April 24
Let's all get together now
Birds of a feather now
We don't need to be laughin' bashin'
Puttin' up a front to wear
Like fashion
Nothin' wrong with carin' now
It's all our grief we sharin' now
So stop all this tearin' DOWN
»» Submitted by quit it now at 10:20 AM on April 24
Um, wouldn't the obvious answer need to be that parents need to watch their kids a little more closely?
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 10:36 AM on April 24
Yeah, in general, when MnSpeakers have made jokes about eating babies, it hasn't been in response to babies actually getting eaten. And, after three years of being involved with MnSpeak, I can guarantee you a family member will stumble on this site and read those oh so clever witticisms made at their dead child's expense.
It's hard to say if humor is subject to taste in the same way a piece of art is. For example, we can find an offensive piece of art beautiful while someone else can be repulsed. That's called taste. However, can you really joke about a real two-year-old who fell out of a window and died? Is there comic fodder in that story? Is that in the realm of "taste" or is there a line that is more clearly drawn in an instance like this?
Most people don't think that dead kids are funny but what do I know.
»» Submitted by swandog at 10:50 AM on April 24
Not necessarily to defend the comments above, but one of the responses to great tragedy is humor. Unfortunately, it is a very human and natural reflex action to make light of tragic events.
I can't imagine the guilt the parents are feeling right now. Sadly, children (toddlers especially) can get into all sorts of mischief and hurt themselves in a manner of minutes when mom or dad's head is turned to answer the phone or put the laundry in the drier. I once drank a bottle of nail polish as a 2 year old and my mom didn't even know I had it until I drank it in front of her. Hopefully, people can become more aware of the dangers that are in the house and prevent more injuries.
»» Submitted by »»» aliecat at 10:59 AM on April 24
I don't understand the overanalysis of what's funny and what's not. Here's the criterion: did what you read/said honestly make you laugh or smile?
Not funny.
Did pretty much everyone else around you not find what you found funny funny?
No amount of explaining is going to make it funny to them. Perhaps it really is funny but not to the crowd around you. Let it go and, if you are absolutely sure that you made a funny, try a different venue because you clearly bombed here.
Finally, if mb was offended then you probably crossed the line.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 11:06 AM on April 24
I don't understand the overanalysis of what's funny and what's not. Here's the criterion: did what you read/said honestly make you laugh or smile?
Not funny.
Did pretty much everyone else around you not find what you found funny funny?
No amount of explaining is going to make it funny to them. Perhaps it really is funny but not to the crowd around you. Let it go and, if you are absolutely sure that you made a funny, try a different venue because you clearly bombed here.
Finally, if mb was offended then you probably crossed the line.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 11:06 AM on April 24
DouglasG: "Not necessarily to defend the comments above, but one of the responses to great tragedy is humor. Unfortunately, it is a very human and natural reflex action to make light of tragic events. "
A few moments of thought on whether you should post that awesome one liner on a local web site about a tragedy that's only a day or so old probably wouldn't go amiss either.
I dunno. Humor is a highly gray and subjective area, but there are a few things seem glaringly obvious.
My rule of thumb is that if I feel like I couldn't in defend myself in good conscience in front of a seriously aggrieved person that I upset (assuming that they're not just being butt-hurt, in which case too fucking bad), I'll probably skip it.
»» Submitted by »»» teucer at 11:10 AM on April 24
"Not necessarily to defend the comments above, but one of the responses to great tragedy is humor. Unfortunately, it is a very human and natural reflex action to make light of tragic events."
I agree, but also remember that in humor, timing is everything.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 11:13 AM on April 24
Not necessarily to defend the comments above, but one of the responses to great tragedy is humor. Unfortunately, it is a very human and natural reflex action to make light of tragic events
Last thing I have to comment on with this thread I promise.
Trolling anonymously with comments that are obviously not humorous / funny to almost every single person here is not reacting with humor to a tragic situation.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 11:16 AM on April 24
WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?? WHY WEREN'T THEY WATCHING THEIR CHILD? MAYBE THEY NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THE CHILDREN THAT GOD GAVE THEM. THESE INCIDENTS ARE 100% PREVENTABLE, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS WATCH YOUR KID OR AT THE VERY LEAST IF YOUR TOO BUSY ON THE PHONE ETC. IS SHUT THE WINDOW TO KEEP THEM SAFE FROM FALLING OUT. THESE PARENTS SHOULD HAVE CHARGES BROUGHT AGAINST THEM FOR CHILD ENDANGERMENT OR WORSE. MAYBE THEN THEY WOULD LEARN. THE ONES I FEEL SORRY FOR IS THE CHILDREN. IF THE PARENTS CARED THEY WOULD TAKE CARE OF THEIR KIDS. AFTERALL IT WAS YOU THAT BROUGHT THEM INTO THIS WORLD.
»» Submitted by MPLS. JOE at 11:21 AM on April 24
Crazy all-caps person -
I'm guessing that the lesson has been learned. Filing of charges not necessary.
»» Submitted by »»» miller at 11:29 AM on April 24
"...These parents should have charges brought against them for child endangerment or worse. Maybe then they would learn..."
I think they've already learned the hardest lesson of all, don't you?
In comparison, a nice and easy lesson that anyone can learn is what that button with "Caps Lock" written on it actually does. If it will help, think of it as a "credibility enhancement button".
Why not take it for the spin the next time you go out on the Internet, eh?
»» Submitted by »»» teucer at 11:32 AM on April 24
Finally, if mb was offended then you probably crossed the line.
I second. Mb should be our human gauge cuz' if she ain't laughin' - it's prolly not even in the same country as funny.
Mpls. Joe: Don't yell at us, we're not the ones you should be yelling at, dude. It was an accident. I'm sure the devastation the parents feel is far worse than you could ever make them feel.
Especially in this part of the country, we should do a Warm Weather Safety campaign. Check your windows, don't leave kids in cars - although I know this happens in the winter as well - all of those things you forget about when you're locked up in the house for 6 months.
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 11:41 AM on April 24
While I agree that charges should not be filed, I do wonder where we draw the line.
The guy whose son was mauled to death by his pit bull was charged. Wasn't it enough that he lost a son? And what about the guy who shot his son while hunting without a permit? And what if we find out that the parents in this case were drunk at the time?
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 11:41 AM on April 24
I was just responding to the comment that "we're beyond hope." All caps guy not withstanding, humor is a fairly human response towards tragedy. We may be at times unthinking, and that is where the "timing" part comes in. Is it in bad taste to make these jokes? Absolutely -- but it is a defense mechanism that many people have. Rats! I should have put this in all caps.
The guy whose son was mauled to death by his pit bull was charged. Wasn't it enough that he lost a son? And what about the guy who shot his son while hunting without a permit? And what if we find out that the parents in this case were drunk at the time?
There was also the mother in Col. Hts that was charged and convicted after her toddler drowned taking a bath while mom was shopping for shoes on line.
So, I think you need to look at the level of negligence of the parents actions.
Some cases, charges might be appropriate, but many cases probably not.
Parent leaves a toddler in a room with an open window they the kid might be able to fall out of to talk on the phone in the other room for 10 minutes? It's a consideration.
Parent turns her back to put a couple of toys away on the other side of the room? Probably not.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 11:51 AM on April 24
humor is a fairly human response towards tragedy
I'd say that's pretty much commonly held to be true. But it really only applies to a coping mechanism you're using to help you deal with or make sense of a personally felt situation. A friend's dad is dying of cancer, and when he introduces himself he says, "Hi. I'm dying." Far be it from me to figure out if that's funny or not. But it's how he's dealing with it.
But using someone else's tragedy for your "humor" is not the same thing. Those comments earlier in this thread were beyond insensitive.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:54 AM on April 24
I don't know what the parents in these incidents were doing at the time of the accidents, but in general I think Bixby and Mpls Joe are mistaken in their idea that the solution is "keep a closer eye on your kids." I assume that the reason every new parent gets outlet plugs and safety latches for the cupboards, the reason behind Mr. Yuck stickers and increased attention to pool drain covers, is that we decided educating the entire culture about household dangers and how they can be avoided is more effective.
»» Submitted by »»» sarah at 12:07 PM on April 24
in general I think Bixby and Mpls Joe are mistaken in their idea that the solution is "keep a closer eye on your kids." I assume that the reason every new parent gets outlet plugs and safety latches for the cupboards, the reason behind Mr. Yuck stickers and increased attention to pool drain covers, is that we decided educating the entire culture about household dangers and how they can be avoided is more effective.
In what world is not keeping a closer eye on your kids the best solution. Even with Mr. Yuck stickers and safety latches and whatnot, do you leave a kid unattended? No, you do not. They're babies! Plus, I think that it might be great if we educate our culture that adult supervision trumps a lot of these things.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 12:13 PM on April 24
I feel like apartments that have children in them should be required to childproof their windows. It can't be that expensive.
I'm not a parent, but I think 2 and 3 year olds do get left alone. My niece is allowed to play with her dolls by her self, she is two. She also gets left in bed at night alone. Mom and Dad run to the bathroom and she is alone. The four year old has a tantrum and no one watches her. I think it is fine.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 12:25 PM on April 24
I think it's a MN law that multi-housing units are suppose to have some kind of window security latch/bar on windows that are a certain height from the floor, but not sure.
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 12:27 PM on April 24
Well, usually it's fine but clearly, when shit goes wrong, it could have been prevented by adult supervision. That's all I'm saying.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 12:28 PM on April 24
I hear ya', Bixby and I agree, but no matter how many times people hear that shite happens in a split second, no one thinks that stepping out of the room for a minute to run and get something is a long enough time for something tragic to happen.
The sibs and I had so many close calls growing up that you'd think my parents were never around, but they were and as closely as they watched us, so much crap happened. Ok, there were a lot of us so that adds to the equation.
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 12:36 PM on April 24
But what choice to parents have? They cannot watch their child 24/7. And people who expect them to are dillusional.
»» Submitted by »»» kc! at 1:03 PM on April 24
No one is saying watch them 24/7 but if your kid is somewhere where they might, I don't know, fall out of a window, perhaps that's a good time to watch your kid more.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 1:36 PM on April 24
Should I believe what I'm readin' you people needin'
To blame , point the finger, "it's the parents fault
For not seein', bein' right there with the baby"
Well maybe
You don't know
the dealio, but I know
About that fool, talking evolution, cleanse the gene pool
That's not humor, good or bad taste,
He talkin' 'bout race, the waste
Don't let them breed, pass on the inferior seed
Mr. gene pool fool don't see
The irony
He's talking about himself, ignorant, weak, can't survive
Gonna die
He thinks he's clever, better than
Those parents cryin' man
Thinkin' there ain't no tears in heaven man
Just like Clapton said
Nobody to blame, ain't no game
Shit happens every day
We live, we forgive, forgive
»» Submitted by quit it now at 2:03 PM on April 24
I can't take you seriously when you use words like "dealio"
»» Submitted by mb@work at 2:06 PM on April 24
You don't like "dealio"?
that's cool, just passin' through
I'm not losin' sleep
Not over you.
You're cool.
»» Submitted by quit it now at 2:12 PM on April 24
Sorry about the caps earlier. I guess I didn't realize they were on until I read after I posted it. It still doesn't change what I said though. Kids do need to be supervised so accidents are less likely to happen, and you do need to provide them with a safe enviroment.
»» Submitted by Mpls. Joe at 6:15 PM on April 24
We assume the parents weren't watching, but even when we are watching, kids still get hurt. The two times I had to take my kid to the emergency room were both for accidents that happened while I was watching her, but when she was more than arm's length away (your basic trip, fall, cut open chin, need stitches). Even if you are watching your kids, telling them to stop jumping on the bed, stay away from the window, whatever, they move fast, get away from you and do stuff you can't control.
The way I kept her from falling out the 2nd story window was to install childproofing bars that I could later remove when she was old enough to be trusted not to hurl her body through the screen while I was in the bathroom. Because my bedroom is so small there is no way NOT to have the bed next to the window.
»» Submitted by Joanna at 6:17 PM on April 24
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