60 Comments:
The play celebrates the power of women and the incredible bond that can happen when women work together. We never see the men, but the worries they cause the women are feltalthough these worries are minor compared to the fear of being raided by immigration officials.
What's that got to do with chubby women takin' off their clothes?
»» Submitted by The Rat at 8:57 AM on May 15
You'd have to see the play, Rat. I saw the movie with America Ferrara and it does have a point.
You'd have to see the play, Rat
Thank you, but dat's OK.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 9:17 AM on May 15
Is Eva Mendes in it?
»» Submitted by bud jr at 9:25 AM on May 15
You three are worse than trolls.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 9:36 AM on May 15
Didn't the movie version have to do with pants? I'm so confused.
»» Submitted by »»» joyride at 9:36 AM on May 15
What is it, precisely, that you feel you have contributed to this thread, rat?
Don't do that, Wayne.
I was confused and I asked a question. After reading the story I wasn't sure whether the play's theme had a political or social subtext.
I certainly wasn't trolling.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:02 AM on May 15
Hm. Maybe it's because you phrased your question in a manner that sounds contemptuous. If you're serious about your question, perhaps rephrasing it might generate a more thoughtful response.
oh come on, it fit his sentiment perfectly.
Actually, the rat reminds me a lot of peter griffin with his kind of obnoxious asinine comments.
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:05 AM on May 15
We discourage posting under someone else's handle.
IMO absolute statements like Real X have Y are inherently exclusionary. Skinny women are just as badly buffeted by the whims of public opinion and the vicissitudes of daily life as women with more heft. But of course titling your play "Some Real Women Might Have Curves and That does not Reflect Badly on Those that do not" No marketability there.
Also, why is it such a special, extraordinary thing that women work together? Is there an implication that women do not work well together?
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:07 AM on May 15
But Peter Griffin brings us the joy of a child's laughter.
I'm with max on this one, given The Rat's well noted contempt for any type of art even slightly out of the mainstream.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 10:08 AM on May 15
I wonder what it be like if some of you guys appeared nude on stage. Methinks you would shrink under pressure...
I guess the all caps wasn't enough differentiation
»» Submitted by wayno at 10:10 AM on May 15
Is there an implication that women do not work well together?
Did you attend a High School?
All Boys New England Prep School, nuff said.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:14 AM on May 15
The lesson to The Rat, I guess, is that when Max puts up a post that highlights the one paragraph mentioning larger, naked women, you had better not reply with any mention of larger, naked women.
»» Submitted by Octaneboy at 10:16 AM on May 15
Or just be clearer as to why you're mentioning them. The Rat does have a history of popping into are threads to express contempt.
The point of them removing their clothes was brought about by the younger character being frustrated that every older woman she was working with complaining and putting down their zaftig bodies. So, she takes off her shirt and says something about not being ashamed of who you are, blah blah, and gets all the older ladies to do the same. It's actually pretty sweet (at least, that's how it goes in the movie).
There, happy now?
Zaftig!
Word of the day!
Thanks Alie!
No problem, I was just excited to use it!
Lunch!: Good point, but I think the title of the play is a response to real women are not just what you see in the media. And truly, thin women do not get the same disdain that women who are perceived as overweight receive.
And it is extraordinary for a group of women to work and get along together. Most times you put a group of women together and it can be a disaster. We're our own worst enemy at times.
What was kind of a "wtf?" for me is that, while Holder brings up valid issues of domestic abuse, deportation, poor working conditions, etc. - are these the focuses that the writer really wanted? I thought it was more of coming-of-age story, but I've only seen the movie.
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 10:21 AM on May 15
Tangentially on this subject
This painting sold for US$33 million a couple days ago.
"Christie's calls it a "bold and imposing example of the stark power of Lucian Freud's realism," depicting "the forceful and undeniable physical presence of people and things."'
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:22 AM on May 15
Frankly, I don't think I've ever heard of one instance of public disdain and predjudice for skinny women beyond "she should eat a sandwich." And if that's something that would ruin your day, maybe you should go to 5-7-9 and buy some thicker skin.
The Rat does have a history of popping into are threads to express contempt.
It got the discussion going. Most of these art topics sit all day with no response.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:24 AM on May 15
Well, you'll note I didn't delete your comment, but instead asked for clarification as to what your intentions were.
BTW: That CNN story might be NSFW.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:26 AM on May 15
And truly, thin women do not get the same disdain that women who are perceived as overweight receive.
Not the same since the flawed reasoning behind it is different, but they certainly get disdain from the media, and respond to it just as dangerously as the overweight. See eating disorders, elective cosmetic surgeries such as breast augmentation et. al.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:29 AM on May 15
The disdain is not that women are thin, the disdain is that the media wants us all to believe that there is a "perfect" body. Eating disorders and electic cosmetic surgeries aren't on the rise because of women being thin. It is the perception that we should all look like 12 year-old boys with gigantic breasts.
»» Submitted by Cat_ at 10:35 AM on May 15
I recall a story that came out of Spain awhile back that runway models were not allowed to work if they were perceived as too slim.
»» Submitted by The Rat at 10:36 AM on May 15
Tangentially on this subject
This painting sold for US$33 million a couple days ago.
I hadn't yet seen this story. Thanks for pointing it out, Rat.
I think I have to disagree with the story's assessment that this painting challenges conventional taste and is not pretty. The subject may (or may not) do that, but I find the painting's classical rendering and bold and lyrically physical handling of paint to be quite beautiful. It's a very conventionally pretty painting in many ways that carries a tension because of the humanness of the subject. Reminds me of Otto Dix's and George Grosz's hyperrealist paintings of the 1920s, or Alice Neal's portraits, or, well, of Lucien Freud.
It is the perception that we should all look like 12 year-old boys with gigantic breasts.
Which proves my point that women in general are under aesthetics-based pressure regardless of their body type.
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:43 AM on May 15
Which proves my point that women in general are under aesthetics-based pressure regardless of their body type.
These days, so are guys.
»» Submitted by Some Guy at 10:52 AM on May 15
These days, so are guys.
Yeah, what's with chest waxing for non swimmers? I guess the media wants twelve year old boys to be girls and girls to be boys like girls to be boys. Always should be someone you really...
»» Submitted by Lunch! at 10:57 AM on May 15
Girls will be boys and boys will be girls
»» Submitted by Lola at 10:59 AM on May 15
It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.
»» Submitted by »»» kurtis at 10:59 AM on May 15
Meanwhile, I can only assume that this production plays on the same tension as the painting. There are, for better or worse, societal norms that we all--men and women, young and old--have to cope with and try to live up to. And yet it's obvious that we all are beautiful, talented, alluring, smart, attractive, yet very imperfect--each in our own way. These works of art point out that individual, imperfect beauty is, in fact, still very beautiful.
Besides, I'm just a fan of flesh. I don't mean that in a creepy way. I just happen to think skin is, plainly aesthetically speaking, a beautiful surface. And I say this as a card-carrying, officially sanctioned aesthetic expert (a.k.a., an art critic)! (Ha!)
...boys to be girls and girls to be boys like girls to be boys. Always should be someone you really...
Blur reference. I got it.
I really don't think our culture is obsessed with looks alone, more like we are obsessed with youth, hence the 12 year old comments.
more like we are obsessed with youth,
Also, we are obsessed with celebs and new fangled gizmos.
»» Submitted by Some Guy at 11:11 AM on May 15
This is such a complex conversation. I was going to say it was "hefty" and "weighty" but did not.
Part of this issue goes beyond aesthetics, doesn't it? Issues of health, self-image, lifestyle, etc. are woven into this. It's not just about weight and appearance.
Whether it's reading articles about how men's beer bellies are tied to Alzheimers or the crippling effects of eating disorders, there is more at stake here than a discussion of the aesthetics of a human's body.
That said, I too think flesh is wonderful.
»» Submitted by »»» nateek at 11:14 AM on May 15
The Rat majority of commenters here does
have a history of popping into are threads to express contempt.
»» Submitted by mazasa at 11:24 AM on May 15
Yes, thank you for that. Zing, as they say.
I wouldn't say it's "public disdain," but I've certainly gotten uncomfortable comments over the years about my thinness. I've been told I must be anorexic, that I need to eat something, that I shouldn't complain about my problems since I'm thin (and thus must not have any problems, huh?), etc.
None of which ruined my day, by any means, but they can create uncomfortable situations when said at the workplace in front of co-workers.
»» Submitted by noreen at 11:58 AM on May 15
It is the perception that we should all look like 12 year-old boys with gigantic breasts.
Hmm, I've got a note sitting at home that touches on this.
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 12:03 PM on May 15
So Max finally saw naked women?
Is that the point?
»» Submitted by bud jr at 12:09 PM on May 15
I haven't yet, but I hear it's fantastic. Apparently, naked women are pretty sexy.
I CAN'T WAIT!
So, she takes off her shirt and says something about not being ashamed of who you are, blah blah, and gets all the older ladies to do the same. It's actually pretty sweet (at least, that's how it goes in the movie).
Amen, aliecat. Plus, they work in a sweatshop - all the more reason to disrobe.
»» Submitted by »»» indyr at 12:15 PM on May 15
Max, weren't you in an all virgin boy band that covered New Kids on the Block?
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 12:25 PM on May 15
Surely you already have heard of "New Kids on the 'New Kids on the Block' Block"?
I think the reason women who look like 12 year olds are used by so many designers is because a high percentage of those designers are gay males. Gay males that are very talented sure, but many of them know very little about designing clothing for the average woman.
Anything else is just so tranny hot mess.
Max, stop talking about Teucer's mom like that.
»» Submitted by mb@work at 1:04 PM on May 15
I won't!
I saw all the human bodies I needed to (and then some) at Body Worlds.
»» Submitted by »»» justpbob at 1:30 PM on May 15
The movie's about how women police each other about body image, but it's also about class issues. The girl who gets her mom and the other women to think differently about their bodies is also the one who is trying to finish school instead of resigning herself to sweatshop work because she's supposed to think she's not good enough.
»» Submitted by Joanna at 1:54 PM on May 15
I like curvy gals.
»» Submitted by kevin at 2:53 PM on May 15
Ahh, here it is:
»» Submitted by »»» mnblrmkr at 9:47 PM on May 15
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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