32 Comments:
China's Mom does let them do it, and as wacko as Bachman can be she is dead right in this article. I heard her talking on the radio the other day about the same thing and when they said it was Bachman I about died because she was making such sense. How will we be able to compete with a country that has its energy costs a fraction of ours? Drive your little prius's and ride your bikes all you want. Corporations which drive economies and give the majority of us jobs NEED energy. Cheaper energy gives them a distinct advantage, and with this cap and trade bs we will have a huge competitive disadvantage.
»» Submitted by they do at 11:12 AM on June 10
I might come close to buying that if there wasn't plenty of empirical evidence to the contrary. Europe's cap and trade system hasn't hindered the country much at all. And if implemented correctly, a cap and trade system could be a huge benefit to our economy. In fact, I would suggest an auction system in which companies have to pay for their carbon credits up front, and in much the same way Alaskans get paid a yearly stipend for allowing corporations to extract resources from the state, Americans would get a stipend from this auction -- thus counteracting whatever increased costs there may be as a result of the cap and trade system.
But saying that we shouldn't have to do something that's ostensibly good for the environment and the right thing to do because other countries aren't doing it is asinine. And it gives China all the ammunition it needs to say, "Well, the U.S. isn't doing it..."
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 11:20 AM on June 10
What pisses me off the most about Bachmann's piece is that she first says that climate change is all hype and not based in science. Then she says it will KILL THE ECONOMY but doesn't provide any real analysis, except some evidence from the Heritage Foundation, a completely biased group, and then says we just shouldn't do anything because it doesn't limit China at all. All of her arguments are completely full of holes. Said before and still true: Michelle Bachmann is Batshit Crazy.
»» Submitted by »»» PwrGeek at 11:34 AM on June 10
I didn't like the Bachmann piece. Should have been stronger. Cap-n-trade is, perhaps, the single worst idea in the history of mankind and a vicious competitive blow from within which the U.S. economy could, perhaps, never recover. She makes it sound like merely something to vote against.
»» Submitted by kevin at 12:19 PM on June 10
There is no way the US will be able to compete in manufacturing goods regardless of energy concerns. If your job doesn't rely on either providing a service that cannot be outsourced such as a bartender or nurse or involves creative solution solving your job will likely be done by someone in India, China, or Indonesia within 10 years.
»» Submitted by Mpls Simpleton at 12:26 PM on June 10
Cap-n-trade is, perhaps, the single worst idea in the history of mankind and a vicious competitive blow from within which the U.S. economy could, perhaps, never recover.
I thought I was the one who's supposed to be making unsubstantiated blanket statements, Kevin.
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 12:48 PM on June 10
Well, that first part might have been a little over the top.
»» Submitted by kevin at 12:52 PM on June 10
Ahh good old free market....
If anything we should place tariffs on Chinese turds. I'd rather buy local stuff that is made of high quality than the poisonous shit from China that was built on the backs of slaves while raping the environment.
Of course the invisible hand of free trade doesn't allow such a situation to occur.
Arguing that we should stoop to China's low standards is a scary idea.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 12:59 PM on June 10
it's important that we set ourselves and our children up to have a clean environment. because if the economy keeps heading in its current direction, we're all going to be living in the woods.
»» Submitted by grote at 12:59 PM on June 10
I hadn't thought of that, grote. Consider me a global warming convert!
»» Submitted by kevin at 1:03 PM on June 10
she may have a point in there somewhere, but I can't get past Bachmann's habit of leaving a bag of flaming dogshit on my doorstep:
However, like the subject of this bill, global warming, the legislation has been the subject of considerable hype and little hard-nosed analysis.
quite the contrary, actually. Her people are the ones stressing hype over analysis.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:12 PM on June 10
but, kevin...the chinese will come in, buy up all the woods, and hire our children as cheap labor. it's cyclical.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:12 PM on June 10
Then I'll move to the free and capitalist China where liberty abounds.
»» Submitted by kaydubyayteetee at 1:15 PM on June 10
I'd normally comment on this type of thread, but I'm not allowed to apparently.
»» Submitted by mazasa at 1:16 PM on June 10
You're allowed to comment. You're not allowed to troll. Apparenlty, you can't tell the difference, so maybe you should just head on over to Little Green Footballs, where they adore people whose only ability to communicate is to make unsupported partisan attacks.
You've been warned a million times. Don't act all shocked now that you've gone from a short leash to no leash at all.
um...you just did.
»» Submitted by grote at 1:19 PM on June 10
We should not be competing with China or India for easily exportable jobs (not including software development). We should be competing with Europe for high skill and precision manufacturing jobs. But that would require more of a commitment to education than many policymakers in the US have the stomach for.
»» Submitted by »»» yoder at 1:22 PM on June 10
But that would require more of a commitment to education than many policymakers in the US have the stomach for.
But that would require more of a reform to education than many policymakers in the US have the stomach for.
»» Submitted by kevin at 1:27 PM on June 10
I think you're both right.
That's impossible. Have you been f*cking Teucer's mom again?
»» Submitted by kevin at 1:32 PM on June 10
Yes.
We are screwed no matter how you look at it. If we do not go to nuclear and come up with some reliable energy source in the end we will warm and go broke. What makes anyone think that cap and trade, bike to work or live in a tent will make a difference it won't. The environment has changed will change and will not me managed by man. Adapt or die.
»» Submitted by swandog at 1:51 PM on June 10
I'd rather buy local stuff that is made of high quality than the poisonous shit from China that was built on the backs of slaves while raping the environment.
If that is your belief, then you should only buy "local stuff that is made of high quality." But, why should the government enact a tariff on foreign goods if you've (and presumably others) have made a free market-based decision to only buy locally produced products? Tariffs generally seem to have a very negative unintended consequences on the businesses and individuals.
»» Submitted by medrowe at 2:19 PM on June 10
Cap-n-trade is, perhaps, the single worst idea in the history of mankind and a vicious competitive blow from within which the U.S. economy could, perhaps, never recover.
I thought I was the one who's supposed to be making unsubstantiated blanket statements, Kevin.
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 2:27 PM on June 10
I've got to agree. Tariffs are a spectacularly bad idea. Personally, I think the best approach for the U.S. would be to put together a confederation like the E.U. -- an A.U., if you will. I'm pretty damn sure we can't compete in the long run, otherwise. NAFTA and CFTA are a half-assed approach to that. We need to be whole-assed.
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 2:46 PM on June 10
If that is your belief, then you should only buy "local stuff that is made of high quality." But, why should the government enact a tariff on foreign goods if you've (and presumably others) have made a free market-based decision to only buy locally produced products? Tariffs generally seem to have a very negative unintended consequences on the businesses and individuals.
Because you can hardly buy anything made in the USA anymore. You'd have to exert an immense effort. Not to mention there are many goods which are probably not made in industrialized countries at all period.
I don't care about tarriffs, I just want an industry that is environmentally responsible and produces quality stuff. Not the abomination that the Chinese factory is. We're all going to be ingesting the mercury that the Chinese coal plants emit.
The whole free trade thing is great, but why weren't America's high standards exported along with the jobs??? Instead, Asia is a conducive place for corporations to avoid labor and environmental regulations. Great result of the free market indeed.
»» Submitted by »»» vlado4 at 2:52 PM on June 10
Vlad04, not to be a China apologist, but keep in mind that the U.S. was one of the first horrendous polluters and made spectacularly shoddy goods during the first several decades of its industrial revolution. And to this day we pollute and have all sorts of manufacturers spewing crap into the air. China is in the infancy of its manufacturing boom. It takes time to grow into responsible manufacturing and a quality over quantity mentality.
Hell, U.S. automakers have had 100 years and they still don't quite get it.
»» Submitted by »»» richg at 3:20 PM on June 10
maybe you should just head on over to Little Green Footballs, where they adore people whose only ability to communicate is to make unsupported partisan attacks.
Little Green Footballs
Comments:
Today: 3,395
MNspeak
Today: 292
»» Submitted by heh at 5:01 PM on June 10
As long as Americans insist that they won't spend $1 more than necessary for a pair of jeans at Wal-Mart, et al., you'll continue to see US manufacturing jobs move off-shore and overseas. It's the same mentality that only blames oil companies and OPEC for high fuel prices when, in fact, it's the falling value of the dollar (brought about, in part, by our ridiculous spending habits) that counts for most of the dollar-increase in the price of crude in the past five years.
There was only one comment on Little Green Footballs today. It was repeated 3,395 times.
Thankfully, I don't wish to moderate a site like that, which I why I am asking you to take your nonsense elsewhere.
Re: dollar currency exchange rates. I like to use this example to illustrate the impact of a falling US dollar:
In 1977, a plate of beef curry in Tokyo cost 400-yen. In 2007, a plate of beef curry in Tokyo cost 600-yen. That's a 50% increase in 30 years. Nothing to complain about. It's still a cheap meal for college students.
However, in 1977, US$1 = 300 yen. In 2007, US$ = 100 yen. Therefore, that plate of 400-yen curry went from costing the equivalent of $1.40 to costing $6.00 ... a 500% "increase" ... but ONLY if you're paying for it with 2007 US dollars.
That's how far the "mighty dollar" has fallen, folks, and it just keeps sinking.
So the RNC needs direction givers. I've got my directions for the RNCsters all ready to go:
Yeah, you go up to 7th Street, catch a 5 and get off at 26th Avenue. Head east about three blocks and you should see it.
»» Submitted by »»» cjc at 8:32 PM on June 10
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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Why I think more people aren’t volunteering for the RNC: the ...: The 2008 Republican National Convention aims to recruit 10000 volunteers who will be needed to help with:. * Welcoming delegates at airports and hotels * Assisting with transportation logistics * Working with security teams ...
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