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So you didn't make it to the opening of Myth last night? Don't worry, Ross reviews what we're dubbing the Monstrosity in Maplewood. (I'm personally struggling with comparing it to big-box retail or mega-church religion -- suburban trends that both hint at your bleak cultural future.) Firehouse, Quiet Riot, Ratt, and Cinderella performed (there should be an acceptable verb form the word nostalgia) for a crowd of 1,300 in the $15 million club that could reach a 5,000-person capacity. Ross says it's not all grim: "The 70-foot stage and vast main floor offer excellent sight lines throughout the room. It feels more like a supersized and cleaned-up version of First Avenue than simply a larger take on the dungeon-like Quest." Think of your favorite band, and now think of them playing Myth -- would you go?
(Props to the PiPress for posting the review on the blog early. It doesn't run in the paper until tomorrow.)
Why _wouldn't_ you go if your favorite band was playing there? I got no love for the suburbs, but are there really people snobby enough to avoid something they'd otherwise enjoy only because it was happening in a suburb?
I guess there are a few reasons why one wouldn't:
1) It's not just a suburb. It's way the hell out there. From my house (off Downtown Minneapolis), I think we're looking at 40 minutes each way.
2) The MOA effect. Just because you can have the most comprehensive shopping experience in existence doesn't mean you support the idea.
3) The intimacy problem. I personally won't go to shows that are any bigger than First Ave. Once you're over the 1200-person scale, it's just impossible to feel close to an actual experience, and I'd rather watch it on tv.
4) The local values argument. Would you rather have your $20 go to First Ave or this thing? Sure, some people don't think this way about their consumption...
You don't have to agree with any of those reasons (#1 and #3 are the ones that matter to me), but they're certainly factors -- I don't think it's as simple as dismissing them as a form of snobbery.
I would definitely go.
Rex, I would tend to agree with you, except on the intimacy issue. That was one of the most impressive things about the club -- the main floor is designed so that it feels intimate (or at least intimate-ish) even with 1,300 people in there.
Personally, I hope Damon Albarn plays there so it'll be Gorillaz in the Myth.
Cough cough.
I'm going.
BTW, has anyone noticed the changes at First Ave? They nuked that bunker that was to the left of the stage (left, that is, if you were facing the stage). Great change -- almost as awesome as taking down some of the plexiglass.
Gorillaz in the Myth.
Why wouldn't you go? Let's see...you can see your favorite band in a place that doesn't smell like piss and vomit AND the employees aren't assholes...plus, it's actually designed for people who like seeing the bands perform instead of just getting wasted at a show? What's there to debate?
I would go if they have a worth while band play. So far I'm not impressed with schedule...make-up metal, pubescent pop-punk and KS95 friendly rock. Yck!
What if the Smiths were playing a one-time only reunion show, Rex? Would you go then? Huh? Huh?
Honestly, I'm not sure. There are no circumstances where I'd go to the Target Center for a concert -- and it has nothing to do with snobbiness; it's merely because the experience is shit when it's that big. It takes on the level of spectacle... it's like when DeLillo talks about religion.
I suppose Myth isn't quite that big, but it sounds like it's getting close.
I agree with Rex, I don't ever see myself going there. Even if it were in downtown, I rarely see a show that would need a place that can hold 4000. Bands like Interpol, Atmosphere, Death Cab may sell out First Ave, but I don't think that Myth is going for that type of scene. I could be wrong, but I didn't think they were going for that. They will probably hurt the Quest more than First Avenue, with bands that are typically on the clear channel concert list in CP.
I do think it will be interesting to see how the schedule evolves. I would think they would be better off with bands in the metal/mainstream pop-punk genres, than the more indie scene.
it's been proven many times and particularly up on the northern end of the suburbs--a nightclub simply won't work. i don't think it really matters much whether or not you'd go. maybe you'd better just do so while you've got the chance. i'd go if jim white were there...
Looks like you can win a chance at a VIP booth for a grand opening show. As a VIP, I believe this lends a sense of refinement and class to Maplewood that been missing since the Ciatti's closed.
See, that's just it... the "box seat seating" principle applied to rock music. Yuck.
See, this kind of thinking has always bugged me though. It's just like people who reflexively bash Barnes and Noble or Borders, ignoring that they've offered greater literary selections to millions of people, especially in isolated areas -- trust me, I used to live in Bismarck, and B&N was a fucking oasis.
For the purposes of this metaphor, Maplewood is kind of like Bismarck. What's wrong with offering access to some good rock shows to teens, 20-somethings and above who are unlucky enough to live in Maplewood, White Bear, Stillwater, etc. Yes, they can drive in and see shows at 1st Ave., but where is it written that quick and easy access to rock must be limited to Minneapolis coolies?
If the existence of the Monstrosity in Maplewood doesn't actually affect my concert-going experience in downtown Minneapolis (and I agree with others, it probably doesn't, because they're probably different acts), then I don't care if they build the damn thing for kids on the prairie outside Nantucket. I only care about this if it means that Franz Ferdinand or M.I.A. get billed way the fuck out there.
Rex, you realize Franz Ferdinand is playing the Target Center next month, right?
Rex,
I'll be your DD just once, if we have to go out there for FF.
I KNOW! And I'm pissed off about it.
I was utterly confused about where to go for drinks before The Killers show. Thank goodness my St. Paul friend had some options. I get very confused and disoriented over there. It's like a whole other world.
Maplewood on the other hand...ever heard of Bizzaro?
Yeah, that's another thing:
5) No community. When you're in Maplewood, where do you all go hangout after the show? Toys R Us?
I totally tried to win tickets to the show last night. Then I realized that I would have no way to get out to friggin Maplewood. No one is sober at a Ratt show.
it's actually designed for people who like seeing the bands perform instead of just getting wasted at a show
Agreed, I like the idea of a club where the music is central. I've been to venues in other cities that were bigger than First Ave, but the experience was just as intimate. And it's not that much of a haul, just 20 minutes from Minneapolis. I drive further than that to buy socks. Would I go there if, say, Lucero was playing? Of course. I went to see Chino Moreno's new project at Star Central in Columbia Heights last month, because I like the music. And, since becoming a grown-up, I don't feel the need to get so hammered at shows that I can't remember the last three songs or how the hell I got home.
Why wouldn't you go? Let's see...you can see your favorite band in a place that doesn't smell like piss and vomit AND the employees aren't assholes...plus, it's actually designed for people who like seeing the bands perform instead of just getting wasted at a show? What's there to debate?
Thats exaclty why I love small venue shows! I saw the foo fighters at first ave a few years ago, and it was the greatest show ever. Ass loads of people crammed into a small place with good accoustics, sweat, piss and i can get wasted and still walk/take a cab home without having to take out a mortgage for the cab ride. The design sounds like a good idea, but the location is effin horrible.
not reflexingly bashing the burbs. speshully since i'm down here in fuckin savage, mn!! see, there's a borders and a barnes n noble downtown too... the thing is is the viability of the place. do you market to a a franz ferdinand/ratt/jimwhite/chinomoreno crowd, or do you just plug in one or two of the those skill sets and pray? or do i mean prey? i think rex should get up on the get down before it goes bad.
For fun, you can compare the pre-edited version of the Ross' story that we originally linked to the post-edited version that just hit the website. Hm, interesting edits.
#1) Would you go to Chicago to see a great show? I'd certainly drive to Hudson to see a good show.
#2) I used to go to the Mall of America for movies and video games, but their execution lapsed as the machines broke down. If Myth does a good job it doesn't matter where or how big they are, but once the initial push fades away and they start staffing it with dropouts in purple vests it's all going to go straight to hell.
#3) Sometimes it is nice to be lost in the crowd. Sometimes it is nice to see a band while floating in a sea of fans. No, you probably won't see Har Mar Superstar drinking beers with random people, but I'm probably the only person who gets a little thrill from that anyway.
#4) $20 at most First Ave shows would buy a ticket AND a beer.
#5) Ratt? Nickleback? If either of those is your favorite band, you probably know your way around Maplewood already, so making the scene in back of the SuperUSA on McKnight probably wouldn't put you out too far.
All that said, I probably wouldn't go to a show there for anything short of a second Walt Mink reunion.
I can't imagine that any band I would really want to see would ever even play there. This being said I did see Bon Jovi open for Ratt in about 1986 at Met Center. Oh no am I dating myself. The show was no where near as good as Yngwie Malmstein opening for Triumph. Now if Triumph were to play at the Myth count me in, unless tickets are $20 then I'll buy their whole back catalog off Ebay and still have enough for a 12 pack.
(Doug, that was hilarious. thanks.)
What I'm reading here is more of the same ultra-inclusive hipster-ism that killed the small record store. People were worried about being treated with scorn and derision asking for Men at Work or some such at Northern Lights that they flock to Amazon. Christ, at the Pizza Luce block party we got so many hostile stares wearing pink and green it was nuts. (course in Maplewood we would have also been yelled at... hmm...internal thought/spiritual questioning/maybe had nothing to do with clothing/we're just unlikeable). But seriously kids, get over it, this kind of posturing leads straight to the success of places like that. Love all equally, (except of course ultra-conservatives and people not in your PRIZM cluster). BTW - do they allow smoking out there? That could be a bigger cause for it's success than anything else. Here's a new topic - who has had sex somewhere in First Ave - and where are the good spots at Myst? Peter, did you cover this in your story? I had a friend who had to go get a tetanus booster after an encounter under the stage back in the 80's. I think her partner in crime reads this site...
I don't understand you people. If the world suddenly decided all future shows were to be held in Wisconsin and you must drive to the middle of a cornfield to see them, you'd blithely accept this and accuse anyone who disagreed as being a hipster?
And can we please put hipster and snarky to a murderous lexical death?
I don't know if Myth is booked by Clear Channel or its kind (do any of you?) but it sounds to me like a possibility I'd like to find out more about. I agree with Rex's first four points. Actually, I recently didn't see a very favorite band close by, because they were sponsored by Clear Channel/Ritual Music. I adamently feel any money spent toward that monstrosity which funds the Bush machine, is money spent toward the demise of independent venues. Regardless, Myth sounds like the MOA effect as Rex puts it well. I don't think it has anything to do with snobbery or "h------ism." To me it's about corporate vs. independent music.
For a great place to really listen to shows, with awesome sight lines, I recommend the Varsity Theater, or the Kitty Cat Club and as always First Avenue. I won't go to a Target Center show, either, even if it is FF, which bums me out, but oh well.
Here's what ultimately irritates me about this thread: I say something as simple as "I don't enjoy myself at gigantic stadium rock shows," and that somehow comes out of the cultural wringer as snobby or hipstery or some other fucking category. The PC '90s sucked because liberalism convinced you to shun the offensive, but the post-PC uber-populist '00s are even worse -- you can't dislike anything anymore. Everything has to be awesome or you're a [insert make-believe cultural category]. It's so bad that saying you don't like Christina Aguilera is now a form of snobbery.
It has a lot to do with the things you choose to dislike, Rex, and how predictable they are. How trite it is to bash something simply because it's in the suburbs. It's the mirror image of suburban hausfraus who bash Minneapolis because it's too dirty or crime-ridden. It's much like a point I made on here weeks back about City Pages -- I'd like it a lot better if every single editorial choice it made wasn't completely fucking predictable.
There are things that are good and there are things that are bad. I couldn't give a flying fuck if it's "predictable" to think that Myth is ultimately either a) inconsequential or b) insidious. I'm sure it would be really edgy for me to come out and say I love WalMart -- BUT I DON'T!
You're saying I should like something because it would be... less predictable of me? Okay, I want everyone to know that I watch approximately 10 hours per week of reality tv. I don't know if you find this shocking or predictable, but I hope you believe I'm part of the non-hipster masses. (Did anyone else see the conclusion to the Twins Fear Factor? It was simply awesome.)
As for the comparison to downtown, you're mixing perceptions with reality. People might think downtown is "dirty or crime-ridden," but it's not (well, mostly not). Everything that I think about Maplewood -- that it's a boring cultural wasteland with nothing more to offer me than strip malls and sports bars -- IS TRUE.
I hear what you're saying, Rex. You can't like anything, either. When Britney Spears's "Toxic" came on at The Seville, everyone started giving me a hard time because I like that song, even though I'm not a fan of Britney.
Look, Rex (like a lot of people in this thread, but I'm calling out Rex since people are picking on him) lives in the city, and prefers city venues because they are closer.
Rex likes the social experience of a show small enough that he can feel some sort of communion with the rest of the audience and not feel like 80% of the people he knows are hopelessly far away where he'll never hope to run into them (he didn't exactly say this, but I think I get his drift). Plus, being close enough to the stage to see the band is also kind of cool.
And I feel the same way about both.
What do either of these have to do with quality? And therefore, where does snobbery even come into play?
So you slam Maplewood for being a "boring cultural wasteland," yet an attempt to make it anything but is apparently totally misbegotten? Is culture only the province of central cities? What could Maplewood do to make it more attractive? Open a rock club? Oops -- they already tried that, but I guess it doesn't pass muster.
And honestly, the last thing I want to get in an argument over is perceptions vs. reality. Your view that Maplewood is boring while downtown is not dirty and crime free is as much a perception as someone who feels the exact opposite.
At this point I'd say I should quit while I'm ahead, but that would have been about 10 comments ago.
Karoake bar, anyone?
I went to the most awesome Karoake bar last night! BWW in Crystal! If you love Kylie Minogue and Metallica and a good rendition of Stairway to Heaven this is the place to be on Wednesdays. 50 cent chicken legs too! (No not chicken legs prepared by Fiddy Cent)
A few things:
1) Rex: In response to your post about the blog vs. print version of the review -- Actually, I filed a slightly different edit of the Myth review for the print edition. I took out the Killers reference/joke, largely because in the blog it was easy to link to my original review, but for the newsprint version, I would not assume that readers would remember a review of mine that ran a week prior. Plus, the Killers show was, like, 40 minutes! That's hardly enough time to even get a buzz started.
2) Cyn: Clear Channel has booked two shows at the Myth: My Chemical Romance (Sept. 20) and Fall Out Boy (Nov. 12). They're taking a wait-and-see-how-those-go attitude before booking more stuff. Assuming those shows do well, though, I would bet we'll see CC booking all sorts of Hot Topic-style mall punk bands that would usually play a sold-out Quest show (or Roy Wilkins).
3) Pat and Rex: I suggest you two settle your beef in the style of true gentlemen, by partaking in a hip-hop dance-off, a la "You Got Served."
Pat, I think arguing with you is like arguing with people who don't think global warming is happening. Not everything is a matter of perception -- some things are true, some things are false. Urban Sprawl happens to be a real thing, not a matter of perception.
But okay, you make a good point on trying to better the exurb communities.
I hope people tread into dirty downtown for the celebration of hip-hop this weekend at First Ave.
back off rex you brain dead idiots, the man has his own opinion, deal with it; is that so hard to swallow? just because someone doesnt agree with you or has different tastes, does not make them in the wrong.
Don't EVEN get me started on global warming. Talk about a "Myth."
Just kidding!
Ross, thanks for letting me know. I like that, "Hot Topic-style mall punk bands." I sort of have this perception (having been to Maplewood a few times due to the fact that my bro lives there) that this could be one more "disnification" of rock music. Reminds me of topics in Neil Gaiman's American Gods, or anything by Neal Stephenson, but particularly Snowcrash.
I don't know if another post is needed on this, but just so all you naysayer know, the Maplewood city council thinks the Myth building is a "beautiful blend of colors" (oh, so pretty!) and a "great addition" to the city of Maplewood.
The odds of this club having interesting bands or an interesting clientele approaches zero. I have a morbid curiosity about the place, but certainly not enough to try to figure a way to get out to Maplewood. I'll stick with First Ave, the Triple Rock, the Turf Club, etc., thankyaverymuch.
And while I can intellectualize the possibility that some people want to go to sterile venues and eschew the boozing, I'm glad to know those people will stay out of the 612.
Boy, you would think that Wal-Mart and Clear Channel were launching a soul-destroying nightclub chain. It's just some independent club to fill the has-been niche. I'd be a lot more troubled by House of Blues coming to town, or by a Hard Rock Cafe obstructing the view of the First Avenue marquee...
Also, Rex, you're feeding the mythconception that "the suburbs" are millions of miles away. I Mapquested the Myth from Rextown, and it came up with 18 miles/23 minutes -- so the way you drive, a good 15-16 minutes, not "40 each way."
listen to you bitches cry; oh no people dont like our poor suburbanite souls; get over it; you live in a part of the metro area that no one wants to go to , unless they already live there; fuck you; if it keeps the meatheads out of the 612, then i love the myth.
I would say that all of this reflexive dismissing and dising is a sympton of the insularity, coldness, and pretentiousness that inflicts the Twin Cities with a vengeance. It's just a club. And if your favorite band is there (and you're not donating to the Bush admin by going there), then it seems the only good reason people give NOT to go would be pure BRAND AFFINITY. Yes, I said it. Everything here can be purely equated with a "brand image." And, well, your own image those type of choices reflect. It's not fashionable, i.e., it's not quite cool enough for me and my citified soul.
Cindy,
A brand is built over time, and Myth doesn't have a brand yet. It has it's features and attributes, but it hasn't attained anything that even comes close to a myth. It may have a hard time competing with the like of First Avenue in that department. It would do a lot better positioning itself against the values of such a place, which I believe it is doing. You won't find a lot of this readership on board with their ideals and brand, but this probably isn't their target market.
But that's what I'm saying: It boils down to brand affininty, whether one wants to admit it or not.
(putting on my grandpaw hat)
I remember seeing Walt Mink and Jonestown at the Fridley VFW Hall. It was especially weird for me being a Fridley High School graduate. How can I eschew my suburban roots when my favorite bands are playing there? At the same time I relished the cultural anomaly - or something.
Wow - heated thread. Rex, we need Natalie back in town to go postal on the suburban club scene. I'll have to checkout the this place in Maplewood - we helped get Valentinos up and running in terms of promotions/events. That place is amazing inside, but its still a huge nightclub in south saint paul w/ top 40 - and thats all it wants to be. If thats what you like, so be it. These places arent designed really for a great experience, they are to make a ton of money off cover and drinks. There isnt much more thought put into it than that - then Clear Channel swings in to even make the process even more mindless. And also the mega-clubs are going the way of Multi-purpose sports areas - i.e. the Metrodome. Its funny cuz in every other city they are shuting down or not doing w/(less miami), but they keep popping up here.
I would say as a side note - to support Rex a bit - the fact that comsumers here arent that picky about venues in the Twin Cities...sucks. Because it makes it nearly impossible to get a cool night going somewhere w/ any consistancy. This Myth place would last two weeks in the Bay Area - even in the burbs.
This is veering a bit off topic, but considering Ross said that 2 bands are Clear Channel sponsored and they're seeing if that works . . . and the point you made that your dollars are not going to the Bush administration. . . do you know about the Clear Channel programming prior to the election, and their huge contributions to the campaign as well as the pro-Iraq war rallies? What about that is not "supporting the Bush administration?" There's song censorship and pro-Iraq war lobbying by programmers, they support right-wingers such as Rush, and Dr.; Schlesinger. . . I could go on and on. To some it may not seem like buying a ticket or a drink does much and it's not like you're writing a check directly to Bush, sure. But, that's one huge place wherethe money ultimately goes, down the road. But it's just being informed and following where the money goes. E.G. the website "Buy Blue" shows how much Target Corp. and Amazon.com, etc, tons of companies donate to the Republican party.
You guys are worried over nothing. 5000 seaters don't compete with 1500 seaters. When the bands are ready to move past 1st Ave they will go to the next level facility. That's MYTH! For those who have seen shows at Roy Wilkins and at Myth this week, where would you rather see a show? This is more about Roy Wilkins and the theaters than it is about 1st Ave. and the Quest..... RELAX!
Check it out, you'll dig it.
Wow, I can't believe they got they got the band Live to play here, what in the world? lol
Luke, what's wrong with LIVE... They haven't played the Twin Cities in a lot of years. Why wouldn't they want to play at the Myth. I seen them play in ND in a severe thunder storm they didn't miss a lick. LIVE is a great band! I don't believe you won't be there. Any LIVE fan will be, unless you didn't buy an advance ticket and get turned away at the door... We'll miss u.
A similar conversation is occuring in thisparallel universe. It seems that even some rockers are thinking Maplewood = not cool. More interesting to me are the 'sold out' figures being spun around.
Maybe one day we'll have a , brand new, big bakeryin Maplewood.
The only bakery I remember being in the Twin Cities is in Minneapolis...
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