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26 Comments:
Noting Adam's size -- 6-foot-2 and about 225 pounds -- Robertson in her ruling that Adam has "repeatedly, though unintentionally, disrupted church services and intruded on the solemnity, quietude, and privacy of the mass in several ways" by making nonverbal noises, flailing his arms, urinating on the floor, hitting a smaller child, bumping into elderly parishioners, running into the church parking lot and starting a vehicle, pulling a teenage girl onto his lap and holding her there for 15 minutes and resisting his parents' efforts to restrain him.
OMG, i can't believe that this was even an issue. this boy should not be allowed to attend this church.
»» Submitted by »»» baker at 2:13 PM on July 1
wait, i mean i understand why it was an issue, but had no idea this kid was behaving so badly, bordering on physical assault and destruction of property. i guess i just though he was makign noises and stuff....
»» Submitted by »»» baker at 2:15 PM on July 1
I'm actually curious as to what kind of therapy and/or training this kid has gone through. My two cousins are autistic teens (as well as a family friend who is barely verbal) and NEVER act this way in public (although they've all had extensive therapy).
his parents are probably some NeoCons who don't believe in mental institutes and think God is the answer to cure-all.
»» Submitted by »»» Kal at 2:26 PM on July 1
The mother is quoted in the article saying, "What does a judge have to say or not say about what is acceptable in a church service?" she added. "That comes down from the Vatican."
Then why the hell would you take it up with a judge instead of the Vatican?
»» Submitted by »»» wtfmn at 2:29 PM on July 1
Excellent point wtfmn.
»» Submitted by »»» mb21 at 2:31 PM on July 1
It doesn't even have to go as far as the Vatican. The archbishop is the sovereign prince here.
»» Submitted by »»» lunch! at 2:32 PM on July 1
wait, didn't the church act first by filing a restraining order? of course she needs to meet with a judge about that. The vatican may be able to issue a robe-staining order, but that's about it.
»» Submitted by »»» baker at 2:34 PM on July 1
At issue was a restraining order -- so I'm assuming it was the church that brought the situation to the attention of the court.
jinx
Re:Strib
'One analyst speculates senior debt holders signed off on the junior debt holders getting screwed. The screwees could wind up with equity in the struggling paper'
My prediction, Max owns the Strib within two years.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 2:37 PM on July 1
Kal- well, I don't think he should have been institutionalized, but aggressive outpatient therapy can go a long way with severly mentally disabled children.
Then why the hell would you take it up with a judge instead of the Vatican?
Clearly, this is a case of asking dad when mom says no.
baker, there seemed to be significant disputes as to how disruptive the behavior was. Both sides had drastically different views of the same incidents. Obviously the judge accepted the church's interpretation.
What bugs me is that the church seems to be essentially turning him (and the family) away, saying "we don't want to be bothered having to minister to you." And that really seems to go against the very mission of the church.
Now, that's just my interpretation, based on what has been reported, which hasn't been much. The church claims they had offered "many" alternative accommodations, but the only one that either side of the dispute has mentioned (or at least been reported) has been to offer a closed circuit feed to a room in the basement of the church.
I can certainly understand why the family might feel that was unacceptable, to be essentially locked away in the basement, out of sight/out of mind. Would they be allowed to come up to the altar for communion? Or would the priest come down to the room and offer the family communion? How are you supposed to participate in the fellowship and community of the congregation or parish that is supposed to be so important to church when you're shoved off and isolated like that?
i see your point. but i tend to believe the church in this case over 'the other side' ie, the parents.
I'm sure that these stories were not made up, as there were likely numerous witnesses inside the church during some of these episodes.
But these offenses, if they did in fact happen, jeopardize the rest of the congregation, and are much too serious to let this child continue attending the church with the normal mass.
There is no good answer at this point, as home-schooling him in bible hoopla sort of nullifies the 'community' aspect of a congregation.
I would have thought that with relgious people, often claiming to be so caring and accepting, that a simple google search for 'MN churches for autistic people' would have at leat returned one result.
»» Submitted by »»» baker at 3:04 PM on July 1
This reminds me of American Airlines and the Case of the Autistic Toddler.
I side with the airline on that one.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 3:07 PM on July 1
well, we haven't heard the versions of any of the other witnesses. Just those of the family and the priest.
For example, the original church filing gave the impression that he was urinating during mass by whipping it out, and peeing on the people in front of him, a la that Calvin sticker. The family claims it's an incontinence problem, much like several elderly parishoners have.
I guess, what it comes down to for me is, Jesus didn't spend much time ministering to the wealthy, and otherwise well off. He spent his time and energy ministering to the poorest, and sickest of people.
And I just really haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that the church is doing right by this kid with respect to that example.
There is not enough info in the AA case. Certainly many of the autistic are tactile defensive and sensitive to people's moods while flight attendants are overworked, underpaid and sometimes surly as hell. This was not a good mix.
»» Submitted by »»» lunch! at 3:12 PM on July 1
Did you read the article and not the post? And there was a GMA story on it the next day.
It doesn't even matter if the kid was autistic. The kid wasn't secured and wasn't following FAA regulations. The attendant told the mom several times and then tried to secure the child. If the mom knew that her son would freak out, she should have secured the seatbelt herself.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 3:15 PM on July 1
Yes indeed I read the link you provided. They should have been removed when the meltdown reached critical. But there is a right way to deal with the autistic and another way to deal with them so that they go from placid to volcanic in no time flat.
»» Submitted by »»» lunch! at 3:25 PM on July 1
Yes indeed I read the link you provided. They should have been removed when the meltdown reached critical. But there is a right way to deal with the autistic and another way to deal with them so that they go from placid to volcanic in no time flat.
»» Submitted by »»» lunch! at 3:25 PM on July 1
The link to the TV station in the link I provided.
»» Submitted by »»» Bixby at 4:08 PM on July 1
Considering most kids don't even like church (or any sort of situation where they have to stay still), I'm guessing this kid didn't really enjoy church as much his mother thinks, and would benefit more from just hanging out with his mother and playing than being forced to sit/stand/sit/stand/etc. for an hour while people talk and he gets bored.
So organized religion is to blame?
»» Submitted by »»» Rat at 7:02 PM on July 1
So organized religion is to blame?
Yes.
»» Submitted by »»» JACC at 7:45 PM on July 1
I imagine it's difficult to preach doctrine and keep children sufficiently entertained.
»» Submitted by »»» Rat at 8:16 PM on July 1
»»» = registered user. click on it to see the user's profile.
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